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  1. #1 Eliminate Military Pensions? 
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    They want to cut military pensions.

    The Obama Administration’s panel of smart guys has decided military retirement has to go.

    Welfare can stay, free pills for Grama can stay, bogus SSI checks for life can stay, Food Stamps for soda and steak can stay, cushy federal civilian benefits stay, congressional compensation packages remain the same, but pensions for guys on their fourth tour, well, we can’t afford them.

    You now what this means?

    It means the military is a small and Republican-leaning voting bloc that the Democrats don’t care about alienating. It means that veterans have no political pull – on either the support or the consciences of the politicians.

    To balance the budget, in the Obama world, we target millionaires and the military. And not just weapons systems, but the men and women who use them.

    We pull the rug out from under them.

    We take a low-paying, dangerous, high-stress crap job with a pittance of a pension, and we yank the pension. And by so doing we will reduce spending, over the next 20 years, by less than one-sixth of this year’s Obama budget deficit.

    http://www.boblonsberry.com/writings.cfm?go=4
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    It means one more attempt by this administration and Libtards in general to break this country and those that protect it.

    Want to make us no better than any other third world shit hole? Demoralize the military to the point that only the dregs that have no life/job skills are the ones serving.

    How do you do that? Start taking away things that entice us to serve.

    Repeal of DADT. Take away 20 year retirement.

    That's just the start.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    They want to cut military pensions.

    The Obama Administration wants to push these people into a 401k – how much do people making $25,000 a year have left over to put into their 401k – and have that 401k be off limits to the military retiree until they are 65 or 70.

    Apparently, the Obama Administration begrudges GIs their 20-year retirement. So let’s take up that issue. Why can people in the military retire after just 20 years of service?
    This reads pretty much verbatim what Tea Party darling Gov. Rick Scott of Florida wants to do to all state workers, including police, guards, and anyone else you might actually respect almost as much as military personnel and many of which are former military personnel.

    This is what YOUR champions say is best. 401K, "just like all major corporations are moving to....."
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  4. #4  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    I don't support this, but I find it ironic that conservatives want all other government employees to give up their pensions, except the military.

    Don't get me wrong, I support the pension system. One of my best friends from high school served her 20 years as an officer in the Navy-she served in two wars, and deserves every penny of her pension. But I also like my (state government) pension program, and cops and fire fighters like theirs.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    It means one more attempt by this administration and Libtards in general to break this country and those that protect it.

    Want to make us no better than any other third world shit hole? Demoralize the military to the point that only the dregs that have no life/job skills are the ones serving.

    How do you do that? Start taking away things that entice us to serve.

    Repeal of DADT. Take away 20 year retirement.

    That's just the start.
    Wait a minute. It's your people who have been championing breaking all the deals between employers and employees, all semblance of job, disability, and retirement security. But you want to carve out of special exception? How about the police officers who have their benefits and retirement packages under attack by largely Republican "businessman-politicians" who think we should all have our own retirement accounts, which we fund, which we control, and which aren't worth a bucket of spit compared to tradityional retirement systems?

    You really need to figure out where you are in the us-and-them scheme of this country. The people who would screw over state workers and police officers will screw you over too, as soon as they can figure out how to not look bad politically for doing so.
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  6. #6  
    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    Think about this........

    I couldn't get a job in '58 because of my draft status, so I enlisted in the USAF. I got a stint in Laos in '59. I got shot at and took a grenade fragment in the side. I only stuck around for six years, so no retirement.

    A military retirement isn't exactly the same as a (OH, don't touch it) Social Security safety net. Both are paid into, but one comes with the possibility of losing your life.

    http://members.socket.net/~mcruzan/images/allen-west.jpg

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  7. #7  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Wait a minute. It's your people who have been championing breaking all the deals between employers and employees, all semblance of job, disability, and retirement security. But you want to carve out of special exception? How about the police officers who have their benefits and retirement packages under attack by largely Republican "businessman-politicians" who think we should all have our own retirement accounts, which we fund, which we control, and which aren't worth a bucket of spit compared to tradityional retirement systems?

    You really need to figure out where you are in the us-and-them scheme of this country. The people who would screw over state workers and police officers will screw you over too, as soon as they can figure out how to not look bad politically for doing so.
    mmhmm
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Wait a minute. It's your people who have been championing breaking all the deals between employers and employees, all semblance of job, disability, and retirement security. But you want to carve out of special exception?
    First off...WTF are you talking about "my people"? Secondly there is no exception being carved out for members of the military you retard.



    How about the police officers who have their benefits and retirement packages under attack by largely Republican "businessman-politicians" who think we should all have our own retirement accounts, which we fund, which we control, and which aren't worth a bucket of spit compared to tradityional retirement systems?
    I assume you have a link to back up this silly accusation?

    Second perhaps you can point to the union that represents the members of the Armed Forces of the U.S. in the same manner that police fire and your beloved Wisconsin teachers are represented.

    Oh yeah that's right...you left that little tidbit OUT of your fucked up rhetoric.

    You're trying to compare union negotiated sweetheart retirement and benefit packages with the desire to reform social security and allow people to start private accounts with their own money.

    That's apples and oranges and extremely dishonest on your part.

    But typical of a libtard. Giant fail on your part.

    You really need to figure out where you are in the us-and-them scheme of this country. The people who would screw over state workers and police officers will screw you over too, as soon as they can figure out how to not look bad politically for doing so.
    I know where I am on this issue. You're the one that needs to pull your head out of your ass and come to this debate with honesty instead of trying to compare things that have nothing to do with the other and say they are the same.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  9. #9  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Wait a minute. It's your people who have been championing breaking all the deals between employers and employees, all semblance of job, disability, and retirement security. But you want to carve out of special exception? How about the police officers who have their benefits and retirement packages under attack by largely Republican "businessman-politicians" who think we should all have our own retirement accounts, which we fund, which we control, and which aren't worth a bucket of spit compared to tradityional retirement systems?
    Did you even read the rest of the article? Some highlights:

    We take a low-paying, dangerous, high-stress crap job with a pittance of a pension, and we yank the pension. And by so doing we will reduce spending, over the next 20 years, by less than one-sixth of this year’s Obama budget deficit.

    Put another way, over those same 20 years, the savings from nixing military pensions will be about the same as was given to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Citigroup and Bank of America in the bailout. We threw away in a foolish ineffective stimulus enough to pay military pensions for more than a century.

    The big banks got theirs, and the soldiers are going to get the shaft.

    SSI is a lifelong, guaranteed right, just like Food Stamps and any number of other welfare programs, and those programs absolutely dwarf the money spent on military pensions, but pensions go and welfare stays.

    Because welfare recipients vote – if it’s not raining and you give them a ride – and they vote Democrat.

    So their money is safe.

    While reporters and politicians who’ve never been in the military opine about how we can’t afford military pensions anymore.

    Let’s look at those pensions.

    Currently, people in the military are allowed to retire after 20 years. They receive, as a pension, half of their base pay.

    And what is that base pay?

    Well, that depends on their rank, but the overwhelming majority of people in the military are junior enlisted people – low-rank grunts who get paid squat.

    Here are some examples. An E-4 – the most common rank in the U.S. military – pays between $1,900 and $2,300 a month, depending on how long a person has been in the service. For those of you without calculators, that works out to between $22,800 and $27,600 a year.

    That is less, in terms of spending power, than the money and benefits given to welfare recipients.

    And, whereas GIs face the prospect of fighting and dying for our freedom, welfare recipients just sit around on their arses.

    The most common retiree rank in the U.S. military is E-7, which has a base monthly pay, after 20 years of service, of $4,189. That’s $50,268 annually, or about what a New York State Trooper makes in his rookie year.

    Of course, that same trooper will soon average $101,000 a year – if he never passes the sergeant’s test – and be eligible for 50% retirement after 20 years.

    Just like an American combat veteran.

    Except that half of $50,268 a year is $25,134.

    Twenty-five thousand dollars a year.

    In most of America, that’s not a mortgage payment. In most of America, that’s substantially below the welfare payout.

    In all of America, that’s dramatically below congressional compensation and pension.

    In all of America, that’s a crying, immoral shame.

    The military is a lower-middle-class job. It is, financially, targeted at lower-income people, offering them a chance to step, barely, into the middle class, to get some college and maybe buy a house. The military is peopled by folks who, if they were less honorable, could have stayed home and made more money on public assistance.

    And the Obama Administration is begrudging them a pittance of a pension.

    The Obama Administration wants to push these people into a 401k – how much do people making $25,000 a year have left over to put into their 401k – and have that 401k be off limits to the military retiree until they are 65 or 70.

    Apparently, the Obama Administration begrudges GIs their 20-year retirement. So let’s take up that issue. Why can people in the military retire after just 20 years of service?

    Actually, the only people who ask that question are people who’ve never been in the military.

    The military is the hardest, most dangerous and personally draining job our society has. It destroys families, it takes lives, it grinds down souls. It is very hard to be in the military. You are treated like crap, and your life is not your own. You do very difficult and dangerous things. Some sail off in ships for six months at a time, some are sent to war zones for a year at a time, all must uproot their lives and their families every two or three years to move off and start over at some far-distant post.

    And some of them come home in a box, or with a hook where their hand used to be and a plate where their skull used to be
    .

    And it is a young man’s game. Yes, older people serve, and some stay far more than 20 years. But the overwhelming majority of men and women in the service are young people whose duty is literally pounding the life and youth out of them. They give the best years of their lives and after 20 years many of them simply don’t have anything left anymore.

    Cops all across America retire after 20, with better pay and retirement than servicemen, and they face less-stressful jobs.

    How is that fair?

    And how is it fair that an administration that was pushed into power with union money is targeting its largest non-union workforce for a benefits cut? Does anyone think for half a moment that the Democrat-affiliated, union-represented federal workforce would face similar unilateral cuts?

    Absolutely not.

    But there will be no negotiations, no asking of the troops, there will simply be a plundering, a breaking of promises, a deserting of our national honor.

    And a repudiation of a sentiment of obligation felt since the disbanding of the Continental army and best expressed in Lincoln’s Second Inaugural:

    “With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.”

    To care for him who shall have borne the battle.

    That started with Washington and will end with Obama.

    If we are silent in the face of this outrage.

    We have a massive, bloated, entitlement government. It is ripe for the cutting. And we are offered the veteran’s head on a platter. Let us refuse it. And let us turn our ire on those who take, but have given nothing. Veterans have earned their pension, let us pay them before we pay those who are “entitled” to welfare.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    You really need to figure out where you are in the us-and-them scheme of this country. The people who would screw over state workers and police officers will screw you over too, as soon as they can figure out how to not look bad politically for doing so.
    Really? Would Reagan have screwed us over? Either of the Bushes? JFK? Eisenhower? No, the only president who would end our retirement plan is the most spendthrift, profligate hack in the nation's history. We know who we are. We're the people that keep you safe at night, who man the walls that keep the monsters that the rest of the world breeds away from you and those that you care about. We're the men and women who fight so that welfare recipients can sit back and complain about how hard their lives are, with the man keeping them down. We're the ones who train to standards that most people never even think of achieving so that we can be sent to some God-forsaken hellhole and put our lives on the line so that people like you can whine about not having been allowed to serve. We're the line between civilization and barbarism.

    I would think that you'd understand the difference between people who are put in harm's way to protect the public (and often die or are horribly maimed as a result) and those who push paper in civil service. Our benefits weren't awarded because we were tough at collective bargaining (we don't have a union), or because we could funnel part of our salaries into corrupt labor cartels that would use those funds to buy elections for politicians, but because we were willing to leave our families for years at a time and protect the nation. We aren't spoiled union hacks who walk off the job and demonstrate when we don't get our way. We'll continue to do our jobs and at the end of twenty or thirty or however many years, when we're own our fourth or fifth deployment and our second set of knees (which some politicians want us to pay for), we'll remember who it was who mocked our sacrifices and put welfare recipients ahead of us.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  10. #10  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Tommy
    Rudyard Kipling

    I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
    The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
    The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
    I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
    O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
    But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

    I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
    They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
    They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
    But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
    But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
    The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
    O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

    Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
    Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
    An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
    Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

    We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
    But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
    An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
    Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
    While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
    But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
    There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
    O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

    You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
    We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
    Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
    The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
    But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
    An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
    An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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