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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    times change. this may work here at home but on the front lines and especially in combat area's where politics is out the window they will be used and abused. already have. and many have left. moral is important. no way in hell I'd serve with em.

    we had faggots in Nam. but they magically disappeared never to be heard from again.
    That's how you handle the fags ...
    Last edited by Bailey; 09-20-2011 at 03:23 PM.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    I thank God the Soviet Union is no more with fags openly flaunting their evil behaviors, no way morally we would survive
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  3. #13  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    .......... politics is out the window they will be used and abused.......

    we had faggots in Nam. but they magically disappeared never to be heard from again.
    Are you saying that there are violent criminals in the ranks of the US military, and that one is to accept that this is the case and inevitable as well?
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    Ever hear of gays raping young guys in the showers ......
    Have you? Got a documented case?
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Exactly, and....

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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Are you saying that there are violent criminals in the ranks of the US military, and that one is to accept that this is the case and inevitable as well?
    Yes as you said cry me a river and build a bridge over it and all that shit.
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  8. #18  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    Ever hear of gays raping young guys in the showers and denying it claiming anti gay bias ? People in forward areas have weapons and if a guy is raped by a group of gays he's likely to be very angry, enough so that he seeks revenge......

    You have some interesting fantasies.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Yes
    Yes, what? Can you be more specific?
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  10. #20  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I hardly think that making racist, sexist, homophobic, or other epithets part of your banter quantifies the "warrior spirit". If the only thing a group of people have to bond over is their stupid remarks and prejudices then the weakness runs much deeper than some lofty idea of what it means to be a warrior.
    And you know this how? Seriously, what is your knowledge on warrior culture based on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It also ill behooves those who fiercely defend every action, thought, and breath in uniform as a defense of the US Constitution to then claim that equal rights for gay people will be the undoing of the military, especially when the only thing that has changed is how one feels about it. Gay people were in the military before and they are in it now, and you're going to tell me that honesty in the matter is going to destroy it? That's ridiculous.
    Congress has repeatedly stated that service in the armed forces is not a right. It is not incumbent on us to justify the policy (although we have, repeatedly), it is incumbent on the activists to demonstrate that changing the rules will enhance readiness and not have a detrimental effect. You keep failing to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Which is not to say that there won't be some period of adjustment and that some people are going to feel put upon. Surely there will be. When privilege is revoked, and making disparaging remarks about a group of fellow soldiers without their being able to officially retaliate undoubtedly qualifies as a privilege, then even some who aren't terribly shallow feel the effects. Those who are incapable of getting through the day without making stupid remarks will find new ways to do it, subtle symbols and code amongst each other. It's was true last week and it will be true next week.
    You're addressing the most minimal aspect of this. The issue is not going to be comments or jokes, but the sexual conduct of servicemembers in close quarters, sexual harassment, and the lack of privacy. Once again, all issues that have been repeatedly raised, but which you ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    The IDF has allowed gay people to serve openly for over ten years now, and most people think the IDF is the second most ferocious military in the world (since we consider our own to be the best) , but even some American military consider the IDF to be pound for pound one formidable force. The IDF has personnel issues, and so does the US military. There are accusations of discrimination and inappropriate remarks and the like in the IDF, and in the US military. What date would we choose to claim is the point before which this was not an issue in the US military? Certainly not today.
    The IDF is not a voluntary force, so it doesn't have to worry about recruiting and retention. There are other significant differences between the US DOD and the IDF, such as the fact that the IDF is designed to fight in a state of permanent siege, and the entire Israeli population is in a constant state of alert, while at the same time, it does not deploy outside of Israel's borders except in highly exceptional circumstances (the Entebbe raid, for example, or the invasion of Lebanon). It certainly does not engaged in protracted operations like the US military does. Israel's longest wars never lasted more than a few months, while our shortest conflicts go on for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    So you are saying that fellow personnel can't be trusted to obey the laws of the land and the rules of the service not to mention not engage in rape by an object on a member of the same sex? Or are you simply venting?
    Well. yes. Most of the gays who have been discharged under DADT were not exposed because of their simple profession of orientation, but because of other misconduct, some of it quite serious. For example, in FY2009, there were 281 unrestricted reports of sexual assaults against male victims and 93 restricted reports. That's close to 400 reports of male victims of sexual assault within the armed forces. Out of those 400 cases, The suspects were overwhelmingly male, with only 27 female suspects, and many of them were suspects in same-sex assaults. So, out of 373 cases of sexual trauma with male victims, the lowest possible number of men who were assaulted by other men was 346. A VA survey uncovered over 22,000 cases among service members seeking services. . Given those numbers, I'd say that fear of rape and other sexual crimes is a legitimate concern.

    I asked you this once before, and got a bizarre answer that didn't address the question, so I will ask again. If you believe that gay males can shower and bunk with other men without any sexual issues, or lesbians can shower and bunk with straight women without consequence, then what is the justification for separate latrines and quarters for men and women? By your logic, if a straight man or woman should not object to showering with persons of the same sex who are attracted to them, then why should they have a problem showering with persons of the opposite sex who are attracted to them?
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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