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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    If an uninsured person grows ill, but it is not an immediate emergency, they will often avoid seeing a doctor because they cannot afford it out of pocket. If they grow more ill because of their lack of care, they end up in an emergency room where they must be treated, and if the illness is worse the treatment is usually more expensive (especially for things like surgeries).

    If they have no money, they still aren't going to pay the bill, so who does? Everyone else.


    It makes far more fiscal sense to pay less money to provide these people with affordable insurance so they can get proper treatment so everyone else doesn't have to pay for high-cost emergency care.
    And this generates lots of people who have bad credit, which in turn becomes profit to places like Aaron Rents, pay as you go phone companies, third party utility guarantors, pawn shops, Amscot, and all kinds of slimy and predatory parallel businesses which cater to people who are ruined by hospital collection agencies.
    Last edited by Novaheart; 10-07-2011 at 10:34 AM.
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  2. #12  
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    yes, the Government is at the will of the people, but they also have to follow the law of the land, which is the US Constitution. Show me where any of these programs are authorized by it.

    We've had them because politician's and judges haven't had the backbone since before FDR to reign it in. We've spent trillions of taxpayers money that would have gone much farther in the private sector and more efficiently than in the hands of the Government. The Government's job is to serve as referee NOT as a player.
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    And this generates lots of people who have bad credit, which in turn becomes profit to places like Aaron Rents, pay as you go phone companies, third party utility guarantors, pawn shops, Amscot, and all kinds of slimy and predatory parallel businesses which cater to people who are ruined by hospital collection agencies.
    I have a friend who is an economist at a consulting firm and does some work with AEI. He is a true believer in The Market.

    He once told me no one gets rich off of poor people. I asked him how such an educated man as himself (doctorate level) could be so ignorant.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    what now libs? I thought Obamacare was all about making it cheaper but the Government wasn't going be all up in your business and making you take anything specific
    They lied. (Of course)

    The fact that legislators are telling insurance companies what they can and cannot provide should be no surprise considering that, in order to pass the bill in 2010, Reid had to take coverage for abortion services out of it. While most people here believe that abortion is a grievous sin, look at the situation legally: abortion is a legal procedure. If Congress could exclude this legal procedure based on the opinions of a bunch of politicians, then the precedent has been set: Congress can exclude ANY legal procedure based on the opinions of a bunch of politicians. Hence the current situation of CONGRESS deciding what health care average Americans get instead of letting us buy the coverage we see fit.

    The LEFT should be up in arms about this. When insurance gets over-regulated at the state level by the government (as it did in Virginia in 2006), the first thing that goes are domestic partner benefits for gay couples. Even if the insurance company wants to offer them because it believes it can bring in lots of gay customers this way, it can't: the government hath spoken. The LEFT should be furious, but watch the 99%ers on Wall Street not mention this at all. After all, Obama their Savior is doing it.

    And as for the rest of us? Perhaps someone will try to shove down our throats the idea that taking the morphine shot and dying is better for society than us getting chemo, if we're older or less useful or something.

    (Sorry if I seem to be screaming. I HATE HATE HATE Obamacare with a passion and think it is the worst thing for not only medical care but medical privacy in this country.)
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    This isn't a game or a pissing contest between you and I.

    When I was transferred out of the special care unit in my recent hospital stay, my new room mate was a man who had come to the hospital because he had not urinated in three days. He had to have an emergency catheterization, and was then dialyzed. He was now a kidney patient. But he was not going to be discharged from the hospital anytime soon because he had no health insurance and the dialysis centers don't take people without health insurance. So the social worker was trying to expedite his application to medicare and medicaid so he could be discharged. The infuriating thing about this is that this man already knew he was diabetic. Had he had proper medical care, his doctor would have picked up on his failing kidneys in time for him to prepare for dialysis without undergoing dangerous catheterization and an extend hospital stay. This man had a prosthetic lower left leg, and yet he worked as a lawn care laborer. So he didn't qualify for anything until he was on what might have been his death bed. You can't convince me that this is the right way to do this.
    Just wait till Obamacare kicks in if you think it's bad now. Medicare and Medicaid patients will be kicked out of the hospital early. The hospital, the Doctor and the social worker get together now to determine when you get discharged. Throw in a jackass from DC that is doing a cost benefit analysis based on age, llife expectancy for each disease and we will go from a great health care system to one that resembles the post office. Ineffecency and death panels will be the norm. The poor and working middle class will suffer.

    Many doctors will retire or not take new patients. That is happening now. The quaily of health care will go down also. Students will be reluctant to become doctors if they have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and the Feds will mandate how much they can charge.
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    I have a friend who is an economist at a consulting firm and does some work with AEI. He is a true believer in The Market.

    He once told me no one gets rich off of poor people. I asked him how such an educated man as himself (doctorate level) could be so ignorant.
    mmmm, ever think that just maybe he thinks that it's more important for those "poor" people to make themselves better?

    give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and feed him for a lifetime
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    I have a friend who is an economist at a consulting firm and does some work with AEI. He is a true believer in The Market.

    He once told me no one gets rich off of poor people. I asked him how such an educated man as himself (doctorate level) could be so ignorant.
    Wow. That challenges everything I have come to believe and observed in Saint Petersburg. I have seen dozens of businesses open up to cater to wealthy people, and go right down the tubes. Meanwhile, I've seen Amscot go from being practically a side entrance on a pawn shop, to having their name on an office building.



    Amscot Financial's Corporate Headquarters -
    Tampa, Florida
    Amscot Financial opened its doors in 1989 with the first location on 4808 East Broadway in Tampa, Florida. Since then, we have opened locations all across Central Florida. At Amscot, our focus is to provide excellent customer service with every visit. We offer clean, well-lit, convenient locations in which to conduct your financial transactions. Many locations are open 24 hours a day.



    We offer a variety of products and services, from check cashing and cash advances to free money orders and wire transfers. Our staff is professional and courteous. Come visit a location near you and see why we are the best in the business!

    You should see that place on Friday and Saturday night. Friday night the "no account" are cashing their paychecks (and paying a fee to do it) and Saturday night they are borrowing against their next paycheck. It's pretty busy from about 5pm tp 2 am.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    Just wait till Obamacare kicks in if you think it's bad now. Medicare and Medicaid patients will be kicked out of the hospital early. The hospital, the Doctor and the social worker get together now to determine when you get discharged. .
    Yes Sarah, death panels.

    Guess what? It already works that way and not just for Medicare and Medicaid, but for United Health Care and BCBS. You don't seriously think that you can stay in the hospital an extra day or two to err on the side of caution without the permission of your health insurance company, do you? Some may be easier to get along with than others, but basically all of them are to one degree or another "managed care".

    I'm in an HMO. I have gotten the care that I need, and as usual, I had to threaten to leave against medical advice on my last hospital stay. In the long run, it is preferable to any other insurance I have had , especially in terms of out of pocket expenses.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Yes Sarah, death panels.

    Guess what? It already works that way and not just for Medicare and Medicaid, but for United Health Care and BCBS. You don't seriously think that you can stay in the hospital an extra day or two to err on the side of caution without the permission of your health insurance company, do you? Some may be easier to get along with than others, but basically all of them are to one degree or another "managed care".

    I'm in an HMO. I have gotten the care that I need, and as usual, I had to threaten to leave against medical advice on my last hospital stay. In the long run, it is preferable to any other insurance I have had , especially in terms of out of pocket expenses.
    Sonny Boy, I have been in the emergency room and the hospital with my parents many many times. I know how the present system works. Your experience pales in comparison to mine. I have spent weeks in the hospital with their numerous strokes and my dad's leg that the doctor wanted to cut off due to circulation problems What you fail to realise is that Obamacare will drasticall change the present system or you are just ignorant.
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    hmm, I can see why people would oppose this.

    How would you feel about a middle alternative, where the federal government can provide their own insurance policy something like medicare for people who want government health insurance, and let people with private insurance have whatever they are willing to pay for?

    After all, I agree with many people here that the government should not require people to purchase private health insurance (the mandate), and I can understand why people want to pick their own plans based on their own needs and budgets.

    This way, the government can provide a barebones package for people who don't want to buy private health insurance and people who do want it can purchase whatever they like.
    It still amounts to the government picking money out of my pocket and giving it to somebody else. Wrong is wrong no matter how tortured your argument.
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