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  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Not so and not relevant.
    Close enough.


    The food stamps and Section 8 that a woman gets because she doesn't make enough at McDonald's for her and her child to live on, goes to the grocery chains and her landlord. OK, so the landlord might not be "rich" by our standards, but he might be.

    And by subsidizing the woman's income, we're subsidizing McDonald's because they don't have to pay a living wage as long as they can get workers who are on food stamps and Section 8.
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  2. #32  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Close enough.


    The food stamps and Section 8 that a woman gets because she doesn't make enough at McDonald's for her and her child to live on, goes to the grocery chains and her landlord. OK, so the landlord might not be "rich" by our standards, but he might be.

    And by subsidizing the woman's income, we're subsidizing McDonald's because they don't have to pay a living wage as long as they can get workers who are on food stamps and Section 8.

    see, minimum wage and living wage are not the same, nor should they be. Thats what you libtards don't understand. If you want to make more money, work harder, spend less time fucking around, get promoted etc. I've worked in those kind of places, it really isn't hard to separate ones self in there and get raises and promotions, just takes hard work.

    minimum wage is just that, minimum, a starting point, not the end all. Those kind of jobs should be for those starting out on the bottom, High School students, thats WHY they get shit pay, they aren't doing anything that uses anything more than basic math skills and interpersonal skills. Sadly I've worked with enough people to know that many don't even have that.
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Close enough.


    The food stamps and Section 8 that a woman gets because she doesn't make enough at McDonald's for her and her child to live on, goes to the grocery chains and her landlord. OK, so the landlord might not be "rich" by our standards, but he might be.

    And by subsidizing the woman's income, we're subsidizing McDonald's because they don't have to pay a living wage as long as they can get workers who are on food stamps and Section 8.
    You're correct about this.

    It's the same story with illegal aliens. Agribusiness and construction (among other industries) hire them at crap wages and they pay no significant taxes due to their illegal status and their low wages. It's the citizens of California who pay for a host of social services related to food, health care, education, etc. to actually make conditions livable for the illegals. That is why we have the highest state income tax and, I believe, the highest sales tax, hovering near 10%, in the nation.

    If you're a small business, you pay for everything and have a ton of red tape, government interference, and fees. If you're a huge business, you get your buddies in the legislature to subsidize your expenses through taxes and you are courted by states and municipalities with tax breaks to set up shop.
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    see, minimum wage and living wage are not the same, nor should they be. Thats what you libtards don't understand. If you want to make more money, work harder, spend less time fucking around, get promoted etc. I've worked in those kind of places, it really isn't hard to separate ones self in there and get raises and promotions, just takes hard work.

    minimum wage is just that, minimum, a starting point, not the end all. Those kind of jobs should be for those starting out on the bottom, High School students, thats WHY they get shit pay, they aren't doing anything that uses anything more than basic math skills and interpersonal skills. Sadly I've worked with enough people to know that many don't even have that.
    This is the way it should be. And for a lot of people it is that way.

    But since the 1970s, industries have been fleeing overseas and many people (not all, but many) have been forced into the low-paying service sector, which is where most of the new jobs are. It's just an economic fact. There's a reason why men's wages have gone down in this country over the past 20 years: the better paying industrial jobs went overseas and what's left is service work.

    Now, if you decide you want to create wealth by starting your own business (instead of working for crap wages somewhere), the government immediately gets in your way with taxes, red tape, etc. and makes it near impossible in some places (like CA). If you decide you want to get a college degree to better your situation, it costs a fortune in government student loans. Unless you were lucky enough to have parents with their own business or with college funds they saved for you, it becomes incredibly difficult to get out of the service sector trap.

    Now, on the other hand, some people do have the opportunity to do better and they don't take it. I know a woman with two adult children. The woman herself has worked hard all her life. She raised her kids singlehandedly (husband took off) and took care of her aging mother, and raised her grandson until he was 16. She was a hard worker, and every time her company was bought out, she was hired into the new company because she did well.

    Her children, however, have not fared anywhere near as well. Both of the children were diagnosed by the public schools as having "learning disabilities" and were placed in Special Ed. The daughter started dating Special Ed males (remember, Special Ed includes learning and emotional problems). The daughter ended up having two children as a teenager and raised neither of them: her mother raised her son and her daughter was taken by the father's family to raise. (Neither father, however, is actively involved). The daughter ended up working part time as a waitress when she got out of school with a useless diploma, and she has remained at the same job, working part time as a waitress. She has no ambition for more. She is now in her early 30s and has taken back her son because she needed him to get HUD Section 8 housing. (This broke her mother who had been raising the boy). She has never married and men have mostly used her as a plaything. But, because of her status as a single mother and her low (part-time) income, she has gotten a nice 2-bedroom (subsidized) apartment in a suburban area for which see pays only $200 a month. Her mother--whose original employer folded in the crash and is now working for less money--can't afford an apartment that nice in that area. The daughter also got free health care for her son (although for many years she couldn't be bothered to fill out the forms to actually get it for him) among other things.

    The woman's son has actually fared worse. He started out a bright kid and scored high on IQ tests, but he ended up in Special Ed because the school said he had ADHD and needed to be on Ritalin. Of course, the kid didn't actually take the Ritalin but dealt it to his friends for spending money. He may still be ADHD, but he has never gone for treatment as an adult. The son has never been able to keep a job for more than a few months in his entire adult life. The only reason he is not on public assistance is because he finds insecure women to be his meal ticket. He moves in for a couple of years and each new woman thinks she can change him. When the woman finally gets wise and kicks him out, he goes back to his mom (who doesn't want to leave him on the street) until he find a new target. He is now around 30 as well. This is a guy who can't even keep a restaurant job, even though he is intelligent, young, and in good shape. He, too, doesn't seem to want any more than what he has. When he was in his early 20s, he was dating a girl whose parents had some money. The girls father offered to pay his way through college. He turned it down.

    These two young adults are cases of people who have become satisfied where they are and have no ambition for more. Now in their 30s, these patterns are pretty much set. Their mother wonders what she did wrong and feels guilty for the way they have turned out. Her example to them was one of hard work and ambition. When her husband left her, she went back to school for computers and got a good job with the same company for many years. When the company recently folded, this woman was able to find a decent (if lower-paying) job in a bad economy, and she is doing well there. This is why she can't figure out how her kids ended up not following in her footsteps. I believe it had a lot to do with being stuck in Special Ed--I used to teach high school and know what those classes can be like. But even as adults, these children have had choices along the way and have decided not to improve, but to stay put. There's not much that can be done about that.
    Last edited by Elspeth; 10-11-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    Thats what you libtards don't understand.
    Aww, nice.
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    minimum wage is just that, minimum, a starting point, not the end all. Those kind of jobs should be for those starting out on the bottom, High School students .
    So the day and age when an adult could have a low skilled job with low pay but a living wage are over? When I was a child, some of the service people had been in their jobs for decades. When did we decide that everyone should be a manager and that only manager would make a living.

    And while we're on the subject of managers, let me put that in quotes "managers" because it has a definition under labor law which is largely ignored. Managers in almost all service businesses and retail are used by their employers as hourly workers, except that they claim that the employee is exempt. The exempt employee is not supposed to be a source of cheap labor for business, he's supposed to be a manager. Most assistant managers these days would be rightly classified as a key-hourly, and most managers would be assistants. The goal of corporate America is obvious: reduce the American people to a country of cashiers and flunkies; make them interchangeable and without serious decision making or responsibility so they can be paid crap and be easily replaced.

    And this is something you want to cheer? Or is it that that makes you feel successful? I think it makes you sound like a fool.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    So the day and age when an adult could have a low skilled job with low pay but a living wage are over? When I was a child, some of the service people had been in their jobs for decades. When did we decide that everyone should be a manager and that only manager would make a living.

    And while we're on the subject of managers, let me put that in quotes "managers" because it has a definition under labor law which is largely ignored. Managers in almost all service businesses and retail are used by their employers as hourly workers, except that they claim that the employee is exempt. The exempt employee is not supposed to be a source of cheap labor for business, he's supposed to be a manager. Most assistant managers these days would be rightly classified as a key-hourly, and most managers would be assistants. The goal of corporate America is obvious: reduce the American people to a country of cashiers and flunkies; make them interchangeable and without serious decision making or responsibility so they can be paid crap and be easily replaced.

    And this is something you want to cheer? Or is it that that makes you feel successful? I think it makes you sound like a fool.
    Now you sound like a fool. Why would only managers make a decent wage? My father did manual labor all his life, and always made a living wage. Of course, we couldn't afford to ski in Colorado every winter or drive $40,000 SUV's, but we certainly could afford a home, food, clothing, utilities, medical care, etc.

    I only have an Associates Degree, and I got a minimum wage job after college, but by now I'm making about $20 an hour more than I made straight out of college, and I'm not any kind of a manager. A huge portion of my knowledge has come from on-the-job training.

    Believe me, if I can "make it" after going to college with 3 kids and ending up with 5, anyone can make it...if they have the gumption to get off their whiny butts and work for it.
    -
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    Now you sound like a fool. .
    Thank you for sharing
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Thank you for sharing
    Hey she just said you sounded like one, I flat out call you one.:D
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    So the day and age when an adult could have a low skilled job with low pay but a living wage are over? When I was a child, some of the service people had been in their jobs for decades. When did we decide that everyone should be a manager and that only manager would make a living.

    And while we're on the subject of managers, let me put that in quotes "managers" because it has a definition under labor law which is largely ignored. Managers in almost all service businesses and retail are used by their employers as hourly workers, except that they claim that the employee is exempt. The exempt employee is not supposed to be a source of cheap labor for business, he's supposed to be a manager. Most assistant managers these days would be rightly classified as a key-hourly, and most managers would be assistants. The goal of corporate America is obvious: reduce the American people to a country of cashiers and flunkies; make them interchangeable and without serious decision making or responsibility so they can be paid crap and be easily replaced.

    And this is something you want to cheer? Or is it that that makes you feel successful? I think it makes you sound like a fool.
    you're completely twisting what I said. I was specifically talking about fast food and similar jobs that START at minimum wage, and it's just that, a STARTING POINT. Promotion doesn't mean going straight to management, there are steps in between. One can work harder, get training and move up. Hell just staying in the FF realm one can move up and buy a franchise fairly easily if they plan and save properly, becoming one of those "evil rich business owners". It happens ALL. THE. TIME.
    "Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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