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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    ... But have no doubt about it, single payer will be the system eventually. No longer will we have the patchwork of health care payment systems we currently have. No longer will small business people be burdened by the health care costs of workers comp. No longer will personal injury attorneys be able to sue for money under the guise of health care expenses, only to have that money converted to BMW's and fine liquor.

    We will pay our premiums in the form of taxes, and they will go to healthcare rather than the real estate and stock portfolios of Met Life and Chase Bank. You will bitch and moan all the way, and you will be better off in the long run. No longer will you have to worry whether your child or grandchild has insurance as he wanders through his twenties trying out businesses and vocations. He can be a missionary, and still have health coverage. He can be a soldier, a machinist, a roofer, a carpenter and he will still have health insurance. This is a good thing.
    I want some of what you're smoking.
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  2. #12  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    If Congress had had the guts to enact single payer in one fell swoop you guys would all have insurance and so would everyone else, and it wouldn't cost anymore than it currently does.

    But Congress didn't have the guts, so it's going to take a little longer to get single payer in place. But have no doubt about it, single payer will be the system eventually. No longer will we have the patchwork of health care payment systems we currently have. No longer will small business people be burdened by the health care costs of workers comp. No longer will personal injury attorneys be able to sue for money under the guise of health care expenses, only to have that money converted to BMW's and fine liquor.

    We will pay our premiums in the form of taxes, and they will go to healthcare rather than the real estate and stock portfolios of Met Life and Chase Bank. You will bitch and moan all the way, and you will be better off in the long run. No longer will you have to worry whether your child or grandchild has insurance as he wanders through his twenties trying out businesses and vocations. He can be a missionary, and still have health coverage. He can be a soldier, a machinist, a roofer, a carpenter and he will still have health insurance. This is a good thing.

    They didn't have the guts? I thoiught maybe they didn't have the money? Now they are shifting adult off spring to private health plans. Even if they are married, do not live at home or attend college. They now are burden on employee trust funds for insurance! If your 20 year old daughter is having kids, we now have the burden of having to pay her insurance also!

    Guess who pays? Single guys like me, that have been real careful not to have any kids....I get to pay for the ones that did...I get a raise every year that is ate up by insurance costs going up..

    I could just be a liberal, work part time for cash, and live off the system...but my values simply won't allow that.
    Last edited by RobJohnson; 10-19-2011 at 02:24 AM.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    I was talking to a friend today. She has been employed on an adjunct basis at a for-profit college for a lot of years. This private college gave her great insurance benefits: medical, dental, optical. She has just been informed that come 2014, the school will no longer give her insurance as part of her employment package because the Obamacare mandate will require her to buy insurance by law; this means her employer is off the hook.

    I knew this was going to happen during the debates of this damned bill. If you pass a law mandating that the citizen by insurance (or be fined), businesses lose their entire incentive to provide benefits to workers who do not have full time status.

    What a frigging swindle.
    So you're saying that it saves businesses the money associated with providing benefits to their workers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    You are a fool if you think it will not cost more. You can not insure 14 million people and expect cost to remain the same. Just common sense. Prem. on Medicare will double in 2014.

    You will curse the day Obamacare is enacted that's if you live long enough. There will be a doctor's shortage and medical care will suffer. Canadians come here for operations because of the lengthy time wait of up to several months. Surely you can be that stupid not to understand that fact. Single payer is a joke in the EU. It's free but you might die before your turn comes up for a heart operation.
    Having more people in the pool generally brings costs down, and with everyone covered there will be less uninsured last-minute emergency care that is never paid for to be picked up by the rest of us.


    Canada does have longer than average wait times, that's true, but for the most part it only applies to less serious or elective procedures. THe more important the procedure, the faster you get in.

    Also, Canada doesn't represent every national system. National systems in Europe tend to have very good and fast service. Canada is on the slower side that's why opponents to health care reform always point to it, but if we look at places like Germany we see far SHORTER wait times than in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  5. #15  
    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    So you're saying that it saves businesses the money associated with providing benefits to their workers?
    Visualize it this way, the employer doesn't send money to the insurance company, the employer lets it just go to the employee in a paycheck.

    Good? Well think about it. Will the employee use the extra cash to buy insurance? In most cases, probably the extra cash will go to something like payments for a new car or a 52" flat screen TV.

    People are like that!

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  6. #16  
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    Libs want us to have the same kind of insurance they have in England where dentists give instructions to patients on how to pull their own teeth.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Having more people in the pool generally brings costs down, and with everyone covered there will be less uninsured last-minute emergency care that is never paid for to be picked up by the rest of us.


    Canada does have longer than average wait times, that's true, but for the most part it only applies to less serious or elective procedures. THe more important the procedure, the faster you get in.

    Also, Canada doesn't represent every national system. National systems in Europe tend to have very good and fast service. Canada is on the slower side that's why opponents to health care reform always point to it, but if we look at places like Germany we see far SHORTER wait times than in the US.
    The tooth fairy is going to pay for those 14 million that do not have insurance. MA under Romney care was supposed to bring cost down and insure the 8 per cent that were not covered. Guess what? MA has the highest rates in the country. Obamacare will be an abortion just like those f....up countries you named.

    I don't know what shithole town or insurance policy you have but I can call my GP and get an appointment the next day and schedule any type of surgery within 1 week. EU and Canaida can not come close. In other words, you are a liar.
    Last edited by lacarnut; 10-19-2011 at 05:15 PM.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    If Congress had had the guts to enact single payer in one fell swoop you guys would all have insurance and so would everyone else, and it wouldn't cost anymore than it currently does.

    But Congress didn't have the guts, so it's going to take a little longer to get single payer in place. But have no doubt about it, single payer will be the system eventually. No longer will we have the patchwork of health care payment systems we currently have. No longer will small business people be burdened by the health care costs of workers comp. No longer will personal injury attorneys be able to sue for money under the guise of health care expenses, only to have that money converted to BMW's and fine liquor.

    We will pay our premiums in the form of taxes, and they will go to healthcare rather than the real estate and stock portfolios of Met Life and Chase Bank. You will bitch and moan all the way, and you will be better off in the long run. No longer will you have to worry whether your child or grandchild has insurance as he wanders through his twenties trying out businesses and vocations. He can be a missionary, and still have health coverage. He can be a soldier, a machinist, a roofer, a carpenter and he will still have health insurance. This is a good thing.
    The first thing single-payer will do is shut down massive numbers of smaller clinics and hospitals. This will happen because the government reimburses for 65% of COST. Not 65% of the bill, 65% of what it costs a hospital to provide the care.

    Living where I do, much of our population is already 30 minutes or more from the nearest medical help. After single-payer, they'll end up from 60 to 90 minutes from the nearest ER.

    It will also drive the most experienced doctors right into retirement...so we'll end up "making do" the way they do in the UK, with nurses being used as doctors. Nurses are vital to patient care, but a 2 year LPN or 3 year RN degree does not give them anything like the 8 to 10 years doctors spend in school and residency.

    Both of these things will lead to much higher rates of death in accidents, health problems, and births...but hey, at least they all died insured!!!

    You know, if I added up all my medical bills from the time I was first covered (when I was in my mid-20's with 3 kids) to today (I'm 52), even with the inexpensive insurance I've had, I'll bet I could have paid cash for all my medical vists, and all those for my kids, and still have money left. It would have saved me money to go without insurance and make the payments directly to the provider...and it would have saved the provider from needing specially trained people that could sort out all the stupid red tape to properly code and bill every visit. My kids and I never went without healthcare when we didn't have insurance, but after I bought it, there were times I couldnt' afford to pay for a prescription any more. :mad:
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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