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  1. #21  
    Best Bounty Hunter in the Forums fettpett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

    One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.
    and most Pawn shops stay above board and will not take hot merchandise, why risk being raided by the cops and being shut down? They are legit businesses, just like any other, it's not the type of business, but the people who run them. If they are committing a crime, shut them down.
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    and most Pawn shops stay above board and will not take hot merchandise, why risk being raided by the cops and being shut down? They are legit businesses, just like any other, it's not the type of business, but the people who run them. If they are committing a crime, shut them down.
    Nova could care less if they are legit; he only sees the social justice issue. No one twists arms to receive cash for goods. Poor people like him consider them evil and taking advantage of the downtrodden.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    Nova could care less if they are legit; he only sees the social justice issue. No one twists arms to receive cash for goods. Poor people like him consider them evil and taking advantage of the downtrodden.
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

    One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.
    Check cashing, title loans, and payday loan establishments (and nail salons, for some reason) are a better indicator now.

    I think the market for lawn implements, mowers, weedeaters, tools, ect, has moved to underground marketplaces. Off the books, backyard criminal enterprises. At least around here.

    I think Fett is right and pawn shops have move up the ladder as far as legitimate businesses (one of the most popular "reality" shows centers on a pawn shop). The next business for the constabulary to start cracking down on to get into line will be scrap dealers.
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  5. #25  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv View Post
    New Orleans prostitutes, too?
    They take plastic, but you have to pay extra to swipe the card in the slot. :D
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Look for this to become the law of the land for all merchants. Business which only take cash have long been considered suspect of skimming. I grew up around kids whose parents owned small stores, and they all pretty much skimmed even after credit cards came along. My friend Kevin's mom actually told me, "You have to, to survive." They also would not charge sales tax if you paid in cash, because they were skimming the cash sales.

    There might be some legitimate businesses which simply have a moral opposition to credit cards and checks, but I'd put my money on them being skimmers.
    If honest businesses have to break the law to survive, then there is something wrong with the law, not the business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Having just read the definition of legal tender, I'd say that the difference is this:

    If you owe jack $100 for a used lawnmower he sold you last week, and if you put $100 cash into Jack's hand this week, then he has been paid and has no claim against you.

    The difference here would appear to be that this law would forbid Jack from selling to you under those terms.

    It's already illegal in practice to pay cash for a new automobile. If you do, the dealer will report you to the appropriate agency as a suspected drug dealer.
    So, if Jack lends me his car, and somewhere down the line, say after a week, I give him cash to repay the debt, then we've circumvented the law?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsycatlover View Post
    The penalty is the same as it is for failure to fill out any form required by the government.

    This has nothing to do with private party transactions. This is an attempt to control the sale of stolen goods. Since theft is OUTRAGEOUS, I believe an entire bridge was recently stolen to sell for scrap, something has to be done. IF we had a population composed mostly of honest people, like second hand dealers that consulted the stolen property lists or wondered just where that scrap dealer got those tons of metal we wouldn't have laws like this. Since this society is becoming more degenerate, you can expect more laws like this and worse.
    I don't know if I believe that. Traffickers in stolen goods will be about as likely to obey this law as they are to obey the laws against theft, burglary or any other impediment to their acquisition of someone else's stuff. The people who will run afoul of this law are those who run cash-heavy businesses, which the state wants a bigger piece of. If the state wanted to crack down on crime, they'd enforce the laws already on the books instead of inventing new crimes to prosecute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    How about simply banning pawn shops? Or requiring them to hold merchandise so long that it frustrated them out of business?

    One thing I think we can agree upon, is that there is a relationship between the number of pawn shops in an area, the number of people who appear to be selling and using hard drugs in that area, and the number of burglaries in that area. These meth heads aren't selling your CD collection at yard sales.
    I despise the idea of using the law to persecute a business because you cannot ban it outright. If someone is going to ban pawnshops, then they should make the case that pawnshops should be banned. Pretending to regulate them to the point where they can no longer function is dishonest and corrupt.

    BTW, am I the only one who expects to see this heavily enforced at gun shows?
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post

    BTW, am I the only one who expects to see this heavily enforced at gun shows?
    Good catch. Devious gun grabbers.
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    They take plastic, but you have to pay extra to swipe the card in the slot. :D

    If honest businesses have to break the law to survive, then there is something wrong with the law, not the business.

    So, if Jack lends me his car, and somewhere down the line, say after a week, I give him cash to repay the debt, then we've circumvented the law?

    I don't know if I believe that. Traffickers in stolen goods will be about as likely to obey this law as they are to obey the laws against theft, burglary or any other impediment to their acquisition of someone else's stuff. The people who will run afoul of this law are those who run cash-heavy businesses, which the state wants a bigger piece of. If the state wanted to crack down on crime, they'd enforce the laws already on the books instead of inventing new crimes to prosecute.


    I despise the idea of using the law to persecute a business because you cannot ban it outright. If someone is going to ban pawnshops, then they should make the case that pawnshops should be banned. Pretending to regulate them to the point where they can no longer function is dishonest and corrupt.

    BTW, am I the only one who expects to see this heavily enforced at gun shows?
    Traffickers in stolen goods won't obey any laws. They use the laws to their own advantage. Thieves are notroriously lazy. They could sell that jewelry themselves, put an ad in the Recycler. That would take time. Better to use a fence. This law is going to be used most heavily against scrappers.
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  8. #28  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsycatlover View Post
    Traffickers in stolen goods won't obey any laws. They use the laws to their own advantage. Thieves are notroriously lazy. They could sell that jewelry themselves, put an ad in the Recycler. That would take time. Better to use a fence. This law is going to be used most heavily against scrappers.
    Except that an ad in the Recycler would attract police attention. Advertising for stolen goods is a quick way to get caught. But the overwhelming majority of pawn shops won't deal in stolen goods. A thief who wanted to unload something will invariably sell to someone who is in the market for the specific item stolen. For example, car stereos may cost hundreds of dollars new, but stolen ones are usually sold for the price of a single fix, and the people who buy them are going to sell them to chop shops who will then re-sell them to dealers who will re-install them in the cars that they were stolen from for a nice markup, just like any other stolen car parts.
    --Odysseus
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Except that an ad in the Recycler would attract police attention. Advertising for stolen goods is a quick way to get caught. But the overwhelming majority of pawn shops won't deal in stolen goods. A thief who wanted to unload something will invariably sell to someone who is in the market for the specific item stolen. For example, car stereos may cost hundreds of dollars new, but stolen ones are usually sold for the price of a single fix, and the people who buy them are going to sell them to chop shops who will then re-sell them to dealers who will re-install them in the cars that they were stolen from for a nice markup, just like any other stolen car parts.
    Pawn shops routinely sell stolen goods! That's the whole point of this kind of law. A private party ad in something like a Recycler doesn't attract any attention at all unless it repeats and they don't repeat. Thieves don't sell stolen goods that way not because it would attract attention, but because it's too slow. Sometimes a cop will answer an ad for jewelry that fits the stolen goods description but not many. This law isn't even directed towards those. This law is directed to scrap yards because the thefts of metal for scrap have reached outrageous proportions.

    Chop shops are an entirely different kind of industry. This kind of law won't do anything at all to chop shops. Choppers get car parts from mexico with legitimate bills of lading, whether they are chopped here or there! It doesn't matter. With any question a chopper can produce a sales receipt from Jose's Body Shop in Juarez on demand.
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  10. #30  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Having just read the definition of legal tender, I'd say that the difference is this:

    If you owe jack $100 for a used lawnmower he sold you last week, and if you put $100 cash into Jack's hand this week, then he has been paid and has no claim against you.

    The difference here would appear to be that this law would forbid Jack from selling to you under those terms.

    It's already illegal in practice to pay cash for a new automobile. If you do, the dealer will report you to the appropriate agency as a suspected drug dealer.
    I think paypal is behind this.

    Cash transactions happen every day in every town or city.

    There is a big difference from buying a lawn mower for $100 cash and a $40,000 car.....when all cash transactions over $10,000 have to be reported in the first place.

    Just think...those big evil banks are missing out on merchant fees by people using CASH....I am sure there is plenty of lobbying that was done in favor of this bill...
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