#1 OK, Another Question For The Board Leftists10-23-2011, 11:50 AM
OK, say you so called "99%ers" got your wish and everybody was afforded a college education. Everybody now has a college degree. Now what? Wanna know what? Now a college degree is as devalued as the dollar is right now. Worthless. Of course, to you leftists, you think that going to college and majoring in Women's Studies or pre-Columbian South American art should be as valuable as someone who went for engineering or medicine.
Last edited by NJCardFan; 10-23-2011 at 11:54 AM.The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
10-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Not everyone would have a college degree, only the people who wanted to go to college and were able to handle the high work load and demanding nature of a college environment.
College isn't for everyone, academia isn't for everyone. However, as our society develops, we need to make sure we educate people accordingly.
In our years as an agricultural society, we, as a nation, providing free primary school to everyone to get the education they needed to succeed in that environment. In our years as an industrial society, we, as a nation, provided free secondary school to everyone to get the education they needed to succeed in that environment. Today, we are living in a post-industrial information based society, that's based on knowledge. If we want to be competitive with other nations we need to catch up with the times and offer free university education. Other nations do this, it can be done.
Second, universities are not trade schools. There is this weird obsession on the right with "women studies" and "basket weaving", I've heard this joke dozens of times from conservative entertainers and then parroted. When you go to college you aren't simply being trained in your major like people are at trade schools. It is true you get specialized education in a certain area but that's not all that happens. Regardless of your major, you learn intensive reading and writing skills, far beyond what is taught at high schools. You learn how to communicate more effectively. You learn critical thinking skills and how to do research. You learn how to work in an environment where you must use your brain more than your muscles. It's true that someone who studies engineering or medicine is likely to end up with a higher paying job, but that doesn't mean that other majors are not learning valuable skills in this economy.
Think about it this way, You don't need to major in Agricultural studies, or a phd in Farm Manegment to successfully perform in an agricultural society, but you do need to have basic math skills, reading skills, writing skills. In the days of agricultural economy, students didn't need to get certified in horse breaking or corn harvesting, but they still needed the skills they learned in school.
Likewise, you don't necessarily need a specific degree in Human Resources or Logistics Coordination or Data Entry to get these jobs, however these jobs will require college degrees because they require the general skills learned in an university setting that are not taught in gradeschool.Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
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10-23-2011, 02:18 PM
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The problem is how to incentivize some degree programs and not others. We can denigrate degrees we call Basketweaving or Gender Studies but in reality few of us would accept that society needs no artists, sociologists, anthropologists, or psychologists just maybe not as many as we have. While we are on the subject, the demand that an artist or artform be self-supporting shows the ignorance of the person saying it. Nearly all of the great artists of history were paid with taxes for the works they are best known for.
A college degree for everyone is luxury we can't afford, even if you take it to mean that skilled trades would get to enjoy a college education before taking to the tools. We have a shortage of nurses and clearly we have a shortage of AC technicians, we do not have a shortage of Philosophy professor applicants.... sorry.
But an advanced society is about luxuries. We have the luxury of studying history together, right here on this board; and discussing philosophy, religion, and all sorts of things which really have no tangible value in terms of food, clothing, and shelter.
What we don't have is order. We have always trusted that our educational system, higher education in particular, would simply apportion itself and clearly that is not happening when we have American citizens with Phd's who can't get jobs, clearly intelligent people who are skilled in schooling, but who for some reason didn't choose to go into medicine or science. Meanwhile, we're importing Indian doctors and Serbian technologists.While you were hanging yourself , on someone else's words
Dying to believe in what you heard
I was staring straight into the shining sun
10-23-2011, 10:31 PM
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"Those of you who did not attend simply cannot understand how we, the educated, stretch our minds to the very breaking point so that we may instruct you, the unwashed masses, as to how to act; how to vote; how to be moral; how to THINK!, for God's sake!
Don't you SEE??!!":p
(High work load, my aching ass)
10-24-2011, 03:34 AM
Some people are not theoretically or academically inclined, but they have incredible skills in other areas. I've known people who never did well in a classroom setting, but work very well with their hands. They might struggle analyzing a theoretical concept but they are able to take apart any household gadget and put it back together again better than new, my father is an example of this. He is a skilled welder, a handy-man, loves to build furniture and thinks very fast on his feet. He never had an interest in theoretical work though, and never went to college.
Likewise, I know people with PhD's in hard science who don't even know how to use duct tape to put something back together. Two people I'm close to, a PhD in Mathematics and a PhD in Biology, panic when their GPS gives them slightly incorrect directions and have never fixed a household appliance on their own in their lives. They are totally dependant on the labor and skill of other people to make their lives possible.
The simple fact is our society needs people who are good laborers, we need people who are know how to use their hands and understand practical, tangible problem solving. We also need people who are more analytically-inclined and are good at solving conceptual problems.
Today, our economy is shifting more towards the latter, with more jobs being knowledge-based jobs, but hands-on jobs are still extremely important and relevant.
I fully expect people who have skilled labor, or even unskilled labor but strong work ethic, to be treated with respect and dignity, and for their children to have every opportunity available to them, just as much as any highly paid university professor.
However, realistically, we are going to need more people with a university-grade education in the economy of today and tomorrow than we did yesterday.Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
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10-24-2011, 09:47 AM
One of the problems with our labor force is that we now expect everyone to go to college to get a job with decent pay. Not everyone is cut out for college, nor does everyone want to go to college.
We've let a lot of our vocational training programs be devalued at the same time. People make fun of ITT, but electricians make good money. Same with plumbers, or any number of skilled trades.
10-24-2011, 12:54 PM
The traditional "sheepskin" has become the Christmas wrapping paper. It tells you nothing of what's inside!
FWIW, I'm a school drop out, but I was assigned the task of interviewing 62 college graduates for intern jobs at the Defense Logistics Agency in Columbus, OH. We needed 32 interns in the mid-eighties for computer related jobs. Most were Big Ten college graduates. Only one, an associate graduate from De Vry Institute could complete a spelling and grammatically correct résumé. I kept him for my systems shop.
Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
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