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  1. #1 Your interactions about this OWS movement? 
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    I'm curious if other people are discussing this issue with their friends, and what is being said. This is a conversation I had today with a friend of mine.

    Some people aren't getting it.
    A well-written response.


    This was his original post. I responded with this.

    Actually, there are several things in there that completely express what this is about. One word to be exact. CHOICE. There is a "counter picture" circulating around about someone bitching about the debt they are in, but they do not ackn...owledge that all that debt was made by their own CHOICE. No one forced it onto them, they asked for it, and are now complaining about it. I will give not one ounce of sympathy for those folks. Nor anyone else who blames other people for the choices they made. The complete and total lack of personal responsibility that has infected our nation today is the root cause of this movement, and I personally find it disgusting.
    He counters.

    Right...all of these people in America, Europe, hell, even the Arab countries that revolted/are revolting are all just looking for a handout. It has nothing to do with the distribution wealth, and the means in place to maintain the status quo.
    My last response, edited the name out.

    XXXX, pay attention to what these people are demanding. They are demanding that all student loans just be forgiven. They are demanding a $20 an hour minimum wage. They are demanding our government spend more then 2 trillion dollars more in making their life easier. They are demanding hand outs so they don't have to get off their lazy asses and making a living like we do. This is about jealousy, plain and simple. It's about people who don't want to work, but want all the perks of it, and fuck the rest of us who have tried to make our own way in life. It IS about a lack of personal responsibility. You want to drag other issues into it, that can be debated seperately, because it's a seperate issue. The whole root cause of this from the very beginning has never been anything other then "They have it, and I want it."
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  2. #2  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    I don't deal with too many people who sympathize with these idiots. Most of the people that I associate with have jobs and pay their bills. They have no patience for these posers.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    I haven't really talked with anyone about it. My friends are all over the political spectrum but it hasn't come up for serious discussion. For my part, I think they are three years too late.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Tecate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    I haven't really talked with anyone about it. My friends are all over the political spectrum but it hasn't come up for serious discussion. For my part, I think they are three years too late.
    I agree. The total cost of the bailout wasn't $800 billion, it was more like $23.7 Trillion and that number has not been updated for over two years unless I missed it, which is quite possible.

    I do remember seeing a ~$28 trillion(ish) number somewhere, but I'm too lazy to dig for it right now... Like it really makes any difference at this point.
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  5. #5  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Cannibalism is the answer, we need to make them hungrier and more attracted to each other.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
    http://i.imgur.com/FHvkMSE.jpg
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  6. #6  
    Senior Member Tecate's Avatar
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    And don't forget this lovely little nugget... The derivatives. Yippeeee!

    Four Biggest Banks in America have Huge Leverage

    1.) JP MORGAN CHASE BANK NA OH

    $78.1 trillion OTC derivatives

    2.) CITIBANK NATIONAL ASSN

    $56.1 trillion OTC derivatives

    3.) BANK OF AMERICA NA NC

    $53.15 trillion OTC derivatives

    4.) GOLDMAN SACHS BANK USA NY

    $47.7 trillion OTC derivatives
    And this little gem too...

    HOLY BAILOUT - Federal Reserve Now Backstopping $75 Trillion Of Bank Of America's Derivatives Trades
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  7. #7  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    I haven't really talked with anyone about it. My friends are all over the political spectrum but it hasn't come up for serious discussion. For my part, I think they are three years too late.
    Six years, actually. In 2005, John McCain called for more scrutiny of Fannie and Freddie, and was demogogued by Barney Frank for wanting to deny loans to poor people. The calls for increased oversight went nowhere, and three years later, the housing bubble burst with a vengeance.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  8. #8  
    Senior Member Tecate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Six years, actually. In 2005, John McCain called for more scrutiny of Fannie and Freddie, and was demogogued by Barney Frank for wanting to deny loans to poor people. The calls for increased oversight went nowhere, and three years later, the housing bubble burst with a vengeance.
    But not before the banks leveraged that shit out to the absolute max, knowing exactly what they were doing in the process. Why not, when the taxpayers get to eat it with a bailout?

    It goes back more than six years and is an equally bi-partisan fuck up. Neither party gets a free pass on this... Both are guilty of allowing the banks to screw us over.
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  9. #9  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecate View Post
    But not before the banks leveraged that shit out to the absolute max, knowing exactly what they were doing in the process. Why not, when the taxpayers get to eat it with a bailout?

    It goes back more than six years and is an equally bi-partisan fuck up. Neither party gets a free pass on this... Both are guilty of allowing the banks to screw us over.
    It does go back further than six years, but it isn't bi-partisan. It actually started with the Community Reinvestment Act, which was the first law that forced banks to make loans in depressed areas, regardless of the credit-worthiness of the applicants. The banks were not permitted to conduct any business that required federal approval (like issuing stock, mergers, acquisitions or pretty much anything else) unless the could show that they were "equal opportunity lenders", which meant that they were pushing bad paper. This was passed under Jimmy Carter. The next wave of idiocy came under Clinton, when the act was modified to allow the establishment of derivatives of mortgages, which passed the risk on to shareholders. Also, keep in mind that Fannie and Freddie owned more than 3/4 of the subprime mortgages in America. It wasn't the banks that did this, it was the feds, and one party in particular.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  10. #10  
    Senior Member Tecate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    It does go back further than six years, but it isn't bi-partisan. It actually started with the Community Reinvestment Act, which was the first law that forced banks to make loans in depressed areas, regardless of the credit-worthiness of the applicants. The banks were not permitted to conduct any business that required federal approval (like issuing stock, mergers, acquisitions or pretty much anything else) unless the could show that they were "equal opportunity lenders", which meant that they were pushing bad paper. This was passed under Jimmy Carter. The next wave of idiocy came under Clinton, when the act was modified to allow the establishment of derivatives of mortgages, which passed the risk on to shareholders. Also, keep in mind that Fannie and Freddie owned more than 3/4 of the subprime mortgages in America. It wasn't the banks that did this, it was the feds, and one party in particular.
    And remember how they completely nationalized Fannie and Freddie right before the collapse that they saw coming because they engineered it? Wow, dump all the losses on the taxpayers and sneak out the back door with the massively leveraged profits... Then demand a bailout to protect those profits. What a fraud and a scam... The biggest in human history to be accurate.

    Paulson stood up there and asked for $750 billion in bailout money for "subprime" mortgages and then gave it to the banks after he got the money. Another in your face fraud. That $750 billion is now tens of trillions. Voting Republican is going to somehow fix this? I seriously doubt it.
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