Thread: America’s missing middle
11-04-2011, 11:58 PM
Your response to every criticism is to point harder at someone else.
The failures of a socialist country across the world does nothing to diminish the failures within our own country.
Pointing out the faults in the Republican party does not explain or erase the faults in the Democratic party. Pointing out the flaws in the Soviet system does not explain or erase the faults in the American system.
The difference between a bureaucrat who lives large while running a state-owned monopoly and a crony capitalist who benefits from having his pet politician restrict his rivals' access to markets through political machinations is only a matter of semantics.Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
11-05-2011, 12:01 AM
The article lost me with this:
Herman Cain, a pizza tycoon
Wait, I thought the Tea Party is racist? Why do I count at least 10 black people in the 2 Tea Party pictures, however, in the 2 OWS pictures all I see are white kids.The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
11-05-2011, 12:10 AMThe difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
11-05-2011, 01:35 AM
Last edited by Odysseus; 11-05-2011 at 01:37 AM.
11-05-2011, 01:45 AM
If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
A wish is a desire without an attempt.
Industry need not wish.
Let us act on what we have, since we have not what we wish.
Cardinal J. Newman
Men try to run life according to their wishes; life runs itself according to necessity.
Some people develop a wishbone where their backbone should be.
Stop the mindless wishing that things would be different. Rather than wasting time and emotional and spiritual energy in explaining why we don't have what we want, we can start to pursue other ways to get it.
The wishing gate opens into nothing.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon
11-05-2011, 03:33 AMSolve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
Liberalism is what the stupid think is smart.
11-05-2011, 09:14 AM"Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Southwest Michigan (in Exile)
11-05-2011, 01:30 PM
They aren't perfect by far, but they seem to be doing some things better than we are. They blend elements of capitalism and socialism. Nations like this are Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland, Denmark, and more.
First, it's not the failure of a socialist country, it's the failure of every socialist country in the world, every single one.
Second, your critiques of capitalism are based on several flawed assumptions, one of which is that there is a viable alternative to capitalism, when there isn't.
Countless times in history, great innovations of thought and technology came because someone realized there were no other existing alternatives, and they sought to create them. They found new directions in thought, asked questions that were previously always assumed, or found entirely new ways for things to be used or combined.
I like to use the example of Ptolemy and Copernicus:
Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei
Today, we cannot simply say "you cannot criticize capitalism because there is no better system". That is like Ptolemy. We should look at the good and the bad about capitalism, the successes and failures of 20th century soviet socialism, and think forward towards something better.
It's ultimately not a question of whether or not things will keep on going the way they have before. That's over, capitalism as we've known it ischanging whether we like it or not. Capitalism is either going to collapse or evolve into something like they have in Singapore.
You also claim that the problems in our economy are the fault of capitalism, rather than the policies of the leftists who have been gradually driving our economy and political systems towards socialism. It's like demanding that we breath pure carbon monoxide instead of air, on the grounds that the air in Los Angeles is less than perfectly clean.
I think this part is tricky and needs some back and forth discussion, but this is precisely the sort of discussion we should be having.
Pointing out the faults in both parties, but comparing them objectively, allows you to analyze imperfect choices and pick the less corrupt, less deluded party. Pointing out the inherent flaws in all socialist systems, not just the Soviet system, doesn't erase the flaws in the American system, but it does put them into perspective. By comparing the two, we see that the socialist models that you advocate result in horrific working conditions, gross inefficiencies, poverty, stagnation and societal collapse. I'll take a business cycle over that any day.
You miss the point. Slave labor exists in China because it is still under the control of a communist party, not because Steve Jobs is a capitalist. A coercive state can cut costs through the use of force, while a free market drives down costs through innovation and competition. Your inability to see the difference is rather scary, considering that you are paid to educate others.Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
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