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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    The point is: that statement ended his chances of being voted for by Republican voters. The republican base views this decision as a magnet for illegal immigration and Republicans HATE being called heartless for their policy decisions.
    I agree and I think anyone who holds the beliefs that Perry does shouldn't run for any office.
     

  2. #12  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    The point is: that statement ended his chances of being voted for by Republican voters. The republican base views this decision as a magnet for illegal immigration and Republicans HATE being called heartless for their policy decisions.
    You miss the point. It's not that we hate being called heartless. Liberals do that so often that it's become a joke in Republican circles. It's that he has bought into the liberal idea that we owe illegal immigrants an education, health care, housing and anything else that you can pick our pockets for. The nation is in debt up to our grandchildren's eyeballs, and he's spending tax dollars on people who don't have any right to them. I'd ask what part of this you don't understand, but the answer is, all of it.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  3. #13  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    You miss the point. It's not that we hate being called heartless. Liberals do that so often that it's become a joke in Republican circles. It's that he has bought into the liberal idea that we owe illegal immigrants an education, health care, housing and anything else that you can pick our pockets for. The nation is in debt up to our grandchildren's eyeballs, and he's spending tax dollars on people who don't have any right to them. I'd ask what part of this you don't understand, but the answer is, all of it.
    Like I said when it happened, Perry grew up rural Texas so he had the unfortunate experience of interacting with the undocumented during his formative years so is cursed with realizing they are human beings.
     

  4. #14  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    This quote ended his campaign:


    "If you say that we should not educate children who come into our state for no other reason than that they've been brought their through no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart."


    You can't say that and expect to be nominated in the Republican Party.
    I agree. That was the death blow, the rest has just been the dying quivers.
     

  5. #15  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    You miss the point. It's not that we hate being called heartless. Liberals do that so often that it's become a joke in Republican circles. It's that he has bought into the liberal idea that we owe illegal immigrants an education, health care, housing and anything else that you can pick our pockets for. The nation is in debt up to our grandchildren's eyeballs, and he's spending tax dollars on people who don't have any right to them. I'd ask what part of this you don't understand, but the answer is, all of it.
    made me think of this:

    Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain. - Frédéric Bastiat
    The left really just can't fathom that individual person's have the ability to problem solve social issues.

    The public servant is not > the Private citizen.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
     

  6. #16  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    Like I said when it happened, Perry grew up rural Texas so he had the unfortunate experience of interacting with the undocumented during his formative years so is cursed with realizing they are human beings.
    Yeah, the rest of us see them as animatronics, like in the It's a Small World Ride. Obviously your unfortunate experience of interacting with conservatives hasn't cursed you with the realization that we are human beings.

    Is it possible that we can see illegals (not "undocumented") as human beings, but also recognize that we have limited resources and cannot pay their way through our schools, hospitals and other critical services without the availability or quality of the same to our own children? Or that, while we are sympathetic to the goals of people to better themselves, that we also believe in the rule of law and expect everyone who comes here to follow it? Maybe some of us think that those who follow the rules, pay the fees and wait their turn deserve consideration before people who simply broke the law? Or perhaps we think that the nation is not served well by a complete loss of control of our borders? Better to dismiss our arguments with your standard snarky BS than actually think about them.

    Tell you what, Annoyo, you empty your wallet at the next illegal that you see (I mean willingly, as opposed to at gunpoint), and then you can lecture us on our inhumanity.
    Last edited by Odysseus; 11-10-2011 at 04:59 PM.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  7. #17  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Is it possible that we can see illegals (not "undocumented") as human beings ...

    Really? What other action by a person earns them the epithet, "illegal"? Who else magically turns that adjective into a noun, Odie?
     

  8. #18  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    Really? What other action by a person earns them the epithet, "illegal"? Who else magically turns that adjective into a noun, Odie?
    As opposed to the adjective-turned-noun "undocumented"?

    Allow me to remind you again that I married an illegal. Afterwards, we paid thousands of dollars and waited years to get her residency approved. She became a citizen last year, after eight years of marriage and two children. I find the demand by those illegals for immediate amnesty to be grotesque and insulting to my wife, who had to jump through all sorts of hoops to comply with the law in order to stay here. Now, as to your grammatical point:

    "Illegal" is short for Illegal Alien, an adjective and a noun. Are you saying that if I referred to them as "illegal aliens", you'd be okay with it? We don't have a specific single word for persons who criminally enter the United States, consume services and evade other laws, so "illegal" has morphed into a noun. It doesn't make them less than human, but it doesn't mean that they have a right to be here, either.
    For that matter, criminal is both a noun and an adjective, and felon is a noun derived from another noun, "felony". Perhaps the word criminal is too much of an epithet for you. Shall we call drug dealers undocumented pharmacists? Shall we call rapists undocumented lovers? Perhaps thieves should be undocumented income redistributors?

    Generally, we refer to people by their actions. A person who rapes is a rapist. A person who breaks into homes is a burglar.

    Illegals impose costs on us, in terms of crime, social cohesion, consumption of services and erosion of sovereignty. We have to decide whether we want to incur those costs, or not. Do you think that we, as a people, have an obligation to pay for services for persons who illegally enter the country, and that any discussion by those who prefer not to pay for those services is therefore a denial of the humanity of illegal aliens? Or is this semantic nonsense of yours just another way to avoid having a debate that you know that you cannot win?
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
     

  9. #19  
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    I have been living among illegals for a couple of decades. Perry absolutely did not endear himsellf to Americans by his sympathy to illegals. They are criminals. There is no other crime that someone could commit where the children get to keep the proceeds of their parents wrongdoing. None. Not in the case of illegal immigration either. They aren't undocumented they are criminals.
     

  10. #20  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    I think you are all reading into this too much..it was a strategic mistake on his part...he thinks by playing nicety nice, he'll get the latino vote...The latino vote is much coveted nowadays..but it's a double edged sword. Conservatives are all for immigrants, as long as they pursue the legal route.
     

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