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  1. #11  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Lower murder rates, not full accounting of infant deaths and several other non healthcare related reasons.
    If we ranked so low why do people from other countries come here for care.? I'll bet you a sawback Chavez would've come here if he couldve kept it quite.
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  3. #13  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Many of these countries don't make out a death certificate for a deceased infant so they don't get included in the stats, we do. Also we lose more in car accidents because we are spread out and people drive to work. You should look at the stats for how many people actually own a car in other countries and how many miles they drive per year, per person.
    Right, I remember hearing this before too, and I looked it up:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db23.htm

    Differences in the reporting of live births between countries can have an impact on international comparisons of infant mortality.


    In the United States and in 14 of 19 European countries, all live births at any birthweight or gestational age are required to be reported. Also, since no live births occur before 12 weeks of gestation, the requirement for Norway that all live births at 12 weeks of gestation or more be reported is substantially the same as for countries where all live births are required to be reported.

    So the US does report all live births as such, while many other countries do not count all live births in certain circumstances, which does result in the US having a higher infant mortality rate than countries with different standards.


    [quote]The U.S. infant mortality rate was still higher than for most European countries when births at less than 22 weeks of gestation were excluded.


    When births at less than 22 weeks were excluded, the U.S. infant mortality rate dropped from 6.8 to 5.8 infant deaths per 1,000 live births in 2004 (2).[/quote

    So while this does affect the statistics, it does not affect them that much. If we exclude premature births from the statistics (as other countries often do), then the infant mortality rate in the US drops significantly, but is still significantly higher than most European nations.


    However, when it comes to premature infants, the US comes out better than most:

    The infant mortality rate for infants born at 24-27 weeks of gestation was lower in the United States than in most European countries (except Norway and Sweden) seven countries had higher rates. For infants born at 28-31 weeks of gestation, the U.S. rate was lower than for all countries shown except Austria, Denmark, and Sweden. For infants born at 32-36 weeks of gestation, the U.S. infant mortality rate was lower than for all countries shown except Austria and Norway. However, for infants born at 37 weeks of gestation or more, the United States’ infant mortality rate was highest among the countries studied.
    So the US has a lower mortality rate for pre-term infants (which some nations don't even count at all), but for babies born at term, the US has a significantly higher mortality rate.



    Another interesting difference, however, is the rate at which pre-term babies are born:

    In 2004, when births at less than 22 weeks of gestation were excluded, 12.4% of U.S. births were preterm, compared with 5.5% in Ireland, 6.3% in Sweden and France, and 7.4% in England and Wales. In the United States, 1 out of every 8 births were born preterm, whereas in Ireland and Finland only 1 out of 18 births were born preterm.
    The US has a far higher rate of pre-term babies being born, and given the higher mortality rate of pre-term babies (in all countries), this brings the US down in infant mortality rankings.


    So, according to the CDC, while the differences in data collection don't account for the America's poor ranking in terms of infant mortality, the differences in the rate of pre-term babies does account for it.

    In 2005, the United States ranked 30th in the world in infant mortality, behind most European countries, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, and Israel. There are some differences among countries in the reporting of very small infants who may die soon after birth. However, it appears unlikely that differences in reporting are the primary explanation for the United States’ relatively low international ranking.

    ...


    The primary reason for the United States’ higher infant mortality rate when compared with Europe is the United States’ much higher percentage of preterm births. In 2004, 1 in 8 infants born in the United States were born preterm, compared with 1 in 18 in Ireland and Finland. Preterm infants have much higher rates of death or disability than infants born at 37 weeks of gestation or more (2-4, 6), so the United States’ higher percentage of preterm births has a large effect on infant mortality rates. If the United States had the same gestational age distribution of births as Sweden, the U.S. infant mortality rate (excluding births at less than 22 weeks of gestation) would go from 5.8 to 3.9 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, a 33% decline.

    So according t the CDC, the main problem with infant mortality in the US is pre-term birthrates themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  4. #14  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  5. #15  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    If we ranked so low why do people from other countries come here for care.? I'll bet you a sawback Chavez would've come here if he couldve kept it quite.
    This is not very complex. We have an excellent and expensive health care system for people who are able to afford it, however, for people who can't afford it, it's not so great. It's our lack of universal care and high prices that gives us a low ranking. RIch people who travel to the US for high-priced healthcare are going to get a very different healthcare experience than unemployed citizens.

    The WHO ranking isn't looking at how good the healthcare system is for a millionaire, it's looking at how good it is overall.

    That's like comparing the entire education system to a select few private schools.


    Think about Soviet Russia. If you were in a small town and you didn't have any connections, you might go to a shitty filthy hospital without running water. However, if you had connections in the Party and had the right job, you could get some of the best healthcare in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  6. #16  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    It could be argued that shorter and more densely trafficked commutes are more dangerous than longer, more sparsely trafficked commutes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    I Thought Healthcare Was Awful In This Country?
    Who said it was awful?

    On that subject, however, I will tell you that when I was in PPU in that last hospitalization, I had a nice glass room in a well maintained unit. When I got better, they transferred my to what I call the Prison Ward where conditions were much different... and what you might expect to see in an Eastern European country.

    Anyway, I never said that healthcare was awful, I said that our patchwork system is expensive and works against those who are who would like to be self employed and in small business.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Most of them don't record infant death like we do.
    Methodology is always important, both in the subject and the study. It's like comparing the murder rate, suicide rate, "gun death" rate etc.... across national borders. Apparently, much of the world doesn't record suicides due to the shame factor. Funny that being a martyr for an angry desert god is noble, but committing suicide is considered a shame.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Many of these countries don't make out a death certificate for a deceased infant so they don't get included in the stats, we do. Also we lose more in car accidents because we are spread out and people drive to work. You should look at the stats for how many people actually own a car in other countries and how many miles they drive per year, per person.
    Shouldn't we have gotten healthier with the death of the public pay phone?
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Shouldn't we have gotten healthier with the death of the public pay phone?
    No, when we used payphones to make calls, we had to stop. Now people drive while dialing, looking through their contacts, texting...
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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