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  1. #41  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    So what is stopping those virtuous workers from risking all and starting their own bakery? If they want,they can compete. Go work in their own bakery and share the risk/reward with their virtuous co-owners. If the family owned bakery can't compete, it will go out of business. If the mighty co-op can't compete, it will be subsidized by taxpayer bailouts.


    I don't know what's stopping them. We have a very successful co-op bakery in Detroit called the Avalon Bakery. They make awesome bread. The company was founded by a bunch of hippies who pooled their resources to start a business. It's successful partly because of the high quality of their bread, and partly because their prices are still lower than Panera Bread's prices. Also, they sell their products to the local restaurants, and a couple of suburban grocery stores also carry their bread.


    They worked hard to build their business, however. I'm not sure that the OWS protesters are capable of that.
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  2. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I don't know what's stopping them. We have a very successful co-op bakery in Detroit called the Avalon Bakery. They make awesome bread. The company was founded by a bunch of hippies who pooled their resources to start a business. It's successful partly because of the high quality of their bread, and partly because their prices are still lower than Panera Bread's prices. Also, they sell their products to the local restaurants, and a couple of suburban grocery stores also carry their bread.


    They worked hard to build their business, however. I'm not sure that the OWS protesters are capable of that.
    So these hippies have no problem with free msrket capitalism, profits, private ownership or competition? Please alert their handlers. Can't have any leaven in the mix.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
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  3. #43  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    This is one of the stupidest statements I've ever seen which is tough to say considering wee wee has own wing in the stupidity hall of fame. Something people like wee wee can't seem to get through their thick skulls is that they are not entitled to an even take of the profits. The employees have invested no capital and have assumed no risk if the mine fails.
    I stated that. Assuming that one person takes on all the risk and forks up all the capital to establish a capitalist relationship to the means of production, then no the profits would not be split. You're not saying anything that I didn't already say.

    In fact, if the mine shows signs of failure, they have the opportunity to simply walk away and not bear any brunt of the subsequent failure. But here's the thing wee wee. Since you believe that the employees should get an equal share of the profits, does it stand to reason that when the mine fall on hard times that the employees share in the losses too?
    Yes, shared profits and shared risks.

    I also think the government should support small businesses. The idea that the government should be totally hands off of the economy is both totally idealistic and has never happened in our history. It's impossible given our current government and economic structure to have no government involvement in the economy.

    The question is what sort of involvement we are going to have. I think it would be better for the government to support small businesses and I think encouraging the growth of business cooperatives would be beneficial to workers.

    Let me repeat it again, and read it slowly: shared profits, shared risks.

    Once again, if the business starts to struggle, are the losses split as well? Thought not.
    Shared profits shared risks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  4. #44  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I don't know what's stopping them. We have a very successful co-op bakery in Detroit called the Avalon Bakery. They make awesome bread. The company was founded by a bunch of hippies who pooled their resources to start a business. It's successful partly because of the high quality of their bread, and partly because their prices are still lower than Panera Bread's prices. Also, they sell their products to the local restaurants, and a couple of suburban grocery stores also carry their bread.


    They worked hard to build their business, however. I'm not sure that the OWS protesters are capable of that.
    Funny how this happens isn't it? Ben & Jerry are hippies as well, created a marketable product, became highly successful then sold their company and became mega millionaires. Funny how the OWS idiots aren't protesting Ben & Jerry's.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  5. #45  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    It is a Marxist distinction, yes.

    You don't have to accept Marxist analysis in order to understand it. That is what the people are referring to.
    Yes, but you have to accept Marxist analysis in order to believe it. I'll pass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    For the third option, well that's something we should be thinking about, rather than engaging in thought-terminating exercises.
    Pretty much every argument that you make is a thought terminating exercise. What you don't understand is that government has no interest in supporting small businesses, because the small business can't generate enough capital to keep politicians in power. Politicians do favors for those who do favors for them. That's how crony capitalism, fascism, social democracy, socialism or whatever you want to call it works. One hand washes the other, and everybody else is left high and dry. Political economic systems allocate resources based on political clout, not market success. That's how you get Solyndra and all of the other transfers of taxpayer funds to Obama cronies. Obama doesn't operate this way because he's a hypocrite, he operates this way because this is how socialism works in reality. It isn't money that corrupts, it's power, and a centralized government with the power to pick who gets to stay in business and who doesn't is an inherently corrupt enterprise.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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