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  1. #21  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Ampat. I don't have a lot of sympathy for her as a victim. Unless he kept her locked up in a cage she had opportunities to get away. She could have left him sooner .... or slit his throat in the middle of the night.
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I have a hard time judging her. The people who should have protected her abandoned her to a monster. She had every right to sue the town, but there's no cause of action for cowardice in the face of bullying, so this is the closest thing that she will get to justice. I can see her attitude as basically saying, "you chickens gave me to him, you can pay me for his death."
    This. They should have put that asshole down a long time ago. But between this and Pedo State, wait,I mean Penn state ,it comes down to this - - humans are cowards. We don't want to be, but we are.

    ~QC
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

    Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
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  3. #23  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    I tend to agree with Ampat. I don't have a lot of sympathy for her as a victim. Unless he kept her locked up in a cage she had opportunities to get away. She could have left him sooner .... or slit his throat in the middle of the night.
    She tried to.

    Sixteen days after Trena gave birth to a son, she and Alice fled with their children, hoping to find a haven with Trena’s mother and stepfather. But McElroy tracked them down within hours and, at gunpoint, forced them back home.

    McElroy first beat Alice savagely. He then held a rifle on Trena and forced her to strip and perform demeaning sex acts. Next, he and Trena drove to her mother and stepfather’s house. The couple was away for the afternoon. McElroy went inside with a can of gasoline and a rifle. He shot the couple’s dog, poured gas throughout the house and lit it on fire. The building was destroyed.
    She was twelve years old when the town let him take her. If the local sheriff couldn't be bothered to protect her, the school couldn't be bothered to and her parents couldn't physically do it, and all of the other tough guys in town were too cowed to act, then expecting her to Rambo up isn't exactly realistic. She was a victim of a monster and a town that didn't have the courage to stop him. The telling detail to me was this one:

    On the morning of July 10, 1981, after his appeal hearing was again delayed, townspeople met at the Legion Hall in the center of town with Sheriff Estes to discuss how to protect themselves. During the meeting, McElroy arrived at the D&G Tavern with Trena. As he sat drinking at the bar, word got back to the men at the Legion Hall that he was in town. After telling the assembled group not to get in a direct confrontation with McElroy, but instead seriously consider forming a Neighborhood Watch Program, Sheriff Estes jumped in his police cruiser and drove out of town.
    Real profile in courage there.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #24  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Well I have to admit I didn't read the whole story word for word. I just skimmed though the headlines. From your post above Ody, this sounds like the Clint Eastwood movie Pale Rider. Sounds like the whole town should be painted red and made to face their sins of looking the other way.

    I still have zero sympathy though. It would not be in my nature to stand by and let someone like that just run rampant right before my eyes to use and abuse. If the sherriff drove off out of town and was too wimpy to act I would have shot him. Especially when he shot the dog and burned the house. It would have been an act of self defense at that level of threat. I may be a lot of things, but abused will never be one of them. I guess it comes down to the way a person's raised but even at 12 in that situation I believe I'd have found a way to kill him or would have died trying.

    I can't even process and understand this type of story.
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  5. #25  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Well I have to admit I didn't read the whole story word for word. I just skimmed though the headlines. From your post above Ody, this sounds like the Clint Eastwood movie Pale Rider. Sounds like the whole town should be painted red and made to face their sins of looking the other way.

    I still have zero sympathy though. It would not be in my nature to stand by and let someone like that just run rampant right before my eyes to use and abuse. If the sherriff drove off out of town and was too wimpy to act I would have shot him. Especially when he shot the dog and burned the house. It would have been an act of self defense at that level of threat. I may be a lot of things, but abused will never be one of them. I guess it comes down to the way a person's raised but even at 12 in that situation I believe I'd have found a way to kill him or would have died trying.

    I can't even process and understand this type of story.
    That was High Plains Drifter. Pale Rider was the one in the mining town.

    But, yeah, the whole town seems to be a little slice of hell.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  6. #26  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Oh yes, it was High Plains Drifter. Thanks for the correction.
    It does sound almost like a movie plot here, for a whole town
    To be held hostage like that by just 1 bully.
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  7. #27  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Oh yes, it was High Plains Drifter. Thanks for the correction.
    It does sound almost like a movie plot here, for a whole town
    To be held hostage like that by just 1 bully.
    It was. That was a major part of the plot of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

    So, what should be done with Woodmansee?

    I have come to the conclusion that any homicide sentence involving a child murder should include the remainder of the life expectancy of the victim in addition to the sentence imposed by the law. That way, the survivors aren't forced to see a murderer freed during the time when their loved one would have still been alive. The life expectancy of the average American is about 65 years, so if we subtract the age of the victim, we get the minimum addition to the sentence, which would have been 60 years in this case. In the case of multiple victims, the youngest victim would be the minimum if the sentence is to be served concurrently. The 25 year minimum that the plea bargain allowed would be added to the 65 years, resulting in a 90 year sentence. Of course, I'd have executed the SOB, but since liberals won't permit that, they can explain why child murderers should be released from prison before their victims would have gone to their first prom.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post
    Well I have to admit I didn't read the whole story word for word. I just skimmed though the headlines. From your post above Ody, this sounds like the Clint Eastwood movie Pale Rider. Sounds like the whole town should be painted red and made to face their sins of looking the other way.

    I still have zero sympathy though. It would not be in my nature to stand by and let someone like that just run rampant right before my eyes to use and abuse. If the sherriff drove off out of town and was too wimpy to act I would have shot him. Especially when he shot the dog and burned the house. It would have been an act of self defense at that level of threat. I may be a lot of things, but abused will never be one of them. I guess it comes down to the way a person's raised but even at 12 in that situation I believe I'd have found a way to kill him or would have died trying.

    I can't even process and understand this type of story.
    The Sheriff is detestable on many levels but he may have driven out of town in an obvious show to the assembled that the law was exiting the AO and therefore could not bear witness to the ensuing execution. I haven't seen the movie but Brian Dennehy plays a pretty good creep.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
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  9. #29  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    I didn't know there was movie about this. I'll have to watch for it.

    I heard on the radio this morning a story about a man breaking in and attacking a woman in her home. Her 11 year old son grabbed his BB gun and shot the guy 4 times in the face. This had a happy ending, but even with the possibility of the mother & son still ending up dead, at least the 11 year old was not going down without a fight and trying to defend himself.
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  10. #30  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Ah I finally ran across a link to the story I mentioned above
    Where the 10 year old fights off an attacker.

    http://www.king5.com/news/cities/bel...134340168.html
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