Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 49
  1. #31  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,414
    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    Jew-haters post almost exactly the same kind of stuff about kosher slaughtering, personally I don't give a rat's ass as long as the meat isn't screwed up. I kinda like the bacon-wrapping ideas, for reasons totally unrelated to tolerating Islam.
    I'd love to see some stupid anti-semite enjoying a delicious turkey only to tell them halfway through that it is....gasp...kosher!!

    bahhahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #32  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,615
    This has the very distinct aroma of bullshit about it.

    Butterball cranks out hundreds of thousands of turkeys this time of year. There is no way in hell that they can:
    1. slaughter each one individually, or;
    2. pray over them while they are being slaughtered.
    Never gonna happen with a high-volume production line like they have.



    Pamela Gellar is out to sell more books. Like most other matters, she's full of shit on this one, too. It makes for interesting internet legend drama, but it's just not true.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #33  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ft Worth
    Posts
    3,788
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    This has the very distinct aroma of bullshit about it.

    Butterball cranks out hundreds of thousands of turkeys this time of year. There is no way in hell that they can:
    1. slaughter each one individually, or;
    2. pray over them while they are being slaughtered.
    Never gonna happen with a high-volume production line like they have.



    Pamela Gellar is out to sell more books. Like most other matters, she's full of shit on this one, too. It makes for interesting internet legend drama, but it's just not true.
    There is a butcher shop west of Ft Worth (Weatherford) has offered halal meat for over thirty years. Muslims in the area keep it busy around Islamic holidays. Not sure what the big deal is.

    On a side note, having worked in the poultry processing industry, I don't see how you can process the amount of birds Butterball does and they all are halal.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #34  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    41,873
    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    There is a butcher shop west of Ft Worth (Weatherford) has offered halal meat for over thirty years. Muslims in the area keep it busy around Islamic holidays. Not sure what the big deal is.

    On a side note, having worked in the poultry processing industry, I don't see how you can process the amount of birds Butterball does and they all are halal.
    Call them and ask them, I'll take your word for it.
    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #35  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    41,873
    Don't push in the temp button, it could be a detonator!:eek:
    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #36  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Right this makes sense but when it comes to a turkey being prayed over to the "wrong God", how much does it matter?
    As I said, if you're an atheist or agnostic, not at all. And if you're a person whose spirituality is more inclusive and believe all ways lead to the same god then you don't mind if someone prays to Allah, Krishna, or the Angel Moroni.

    It's not like they are praying to Thor, they are praying to the God of Abraham it's just that (to a Christian) they are doing it improperly by not recognizing that same God as being personified through Christ.
    Not exactly. There is an argument that Allah is not God because he is not Jesus. I know it's esoteric, but when you get into theology it's a bit of a thicket. Intention matters even more than history. Remember, with religion, you're dealing with spiritual acts which have a realm of their own outside of history and outside of scripture. In order to do these acts and have them count for good (and not evil) you have to have the right intent (energy) behind them. Catholicism, for example, has the seven sacraments, of which six are open to all people and the seventh (holy orders) open only to those who choose the religious life (priests, brothers, nuns, etc.) One of the six sacraments is marriage. The Catholic church does not allow divorce (the separation of two people married legitimately with the "right attitude and spirit") but does allow annulment, which is the acknowledgment that two people who went through the wedding ceremony are nonetheless not really married because of their attitude or spirit at the time. So for example, if you are drunk when you get married or are coerced into marriage, you do not have the right attitude or proper spiritual frame of mind to make the holy commitment of marriage.

    Here again, it sounds like splitting hairs, but in Christianity especially the right spirit matters. In Judaism, you perform mitzvah , which are necessary actions commanded by God in Jewish law. You have to do them but you don't have to like them for the mitzvah to "count" (at least according to my Jewish friends). In Catholicism, you have to do "good works" which are also commanded by Jesus in the New Testament-- feed the hungry, clothe the naked, love your neighbor, etc. However, you must also have the "right" attitude (if you are Catholic) or they don't "count". That was drilled into us by the nuns: not only did you have to do good things for people but you had to do it for the love of God, not for your own aggrandizement and not just because you had to. (I have heard that in Judaism, the best mitzvahs are those done in secret, between the person and God, so some of the Catholic view on good works seems to be related to that.)

    So to summarize, you have to have the right spirit, the right energy and the right god. Confusing, yes? :)

    I can see the argument that they are not properly praying or they are praying to an improper interpretation of the same God, but I don't see how that equates to praying to a totally different, separately existing God who will curse the turkey.
    It's not about cursing a turkey. The thing can't get more cursed than being dead :).

    You're right, it is splitting hairs, and I know that goes on a lot in religious discussions, but how much does that matter here? If a Muslim offers a prayer for your safety or good blessing, should you be angry or run away because your God will be angered?

    This just isn't how I have come to understand God, but I know different people will have different ideas.
    Yes, it's splitting hairs. Remember, my church spent oodles of time debating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. At least it kept those guys off the streets and out of trouble. :)

    I'm just trying to explain the religious mindset to you, which is always difficult for one not raised in it. It causes certain knee-jerk reactions and sometimes it's good to put it all down.

    If you understand it better, perhaps you can have some tolerance for it, even if you disagree. It's like the Shona tribe of Zimbabwe who play the Mbira, a metal thumb piano. It has an unique sound, which to the Westerner is merely "interesting" but to the Shona it is a way of calling their dead ancestors down, in a mediumistic way, to possess the body of a living person and give advice to the tribe. If you or I pick up the mbira and play it, we're not calling down ancestors and we certainly are not asking to be possessed by them. (Let's hope not, anyway. Some ancestors are best left undisturbed!) But if a Shona plays the mbira, there is a whole history behind it and for some it is a sacred act. It might be a sacrilege to certain people if you play it, sample it, and include it in some pop piece (like the Beatles did with the sitar).

    You might wonder why anyone would get mad about that but if you are going to deal with some Shona who believe in the power of the mbira, you need to be tolerant. (You might also look up to avoid falling ancestors.:)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmCt8aGrwJc
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #37  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,985
    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    Jew-haters post almost exactly the same kind of stuff about kosher slaughtering, personally I don't give a rat's ass about either one, as long as the meat isn't screwed up. They can chase the fuckers down with chainsaws, as long as they aim well and don't mess up the white meat.

    I kinda like the bacon-wrapping ideas, for reasons totally unrelated to tolerating Islam.
    I think that's how most people feel.

    I wonder, though, how people would feel if a Wiccan priest prayed over it. It's always interesting to see where the breaking point is.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #38  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    On a side note, having worked in the poultry processing industry, I don't see how you can process the amount of birds Butterball does and they all are halal.
    That was a comment on one of the Muslim-American websites. They still have not heard the specifics from Butterball on what they actually do. I'm figuring the slaughter is done in a certain front to back way, and maybe they have some religious dudes signing off on it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #39  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Pamela Gellar is out to sell more books. Like most other matters, she's full of shit on this one, too. It makes for interesting internet legend drama, but it's just not true.

    It certainly sounds that way. What's her MO? I never heard of her before this thread.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #40  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,985
    Statement from Butterball read on (gasp!) MSNBC. (I know, I know. But it was the one place I found an actual full statement from Butterball)

    "Our domestic products are not halal certified and thus, do not require any additional on-package labeling. As is common within the industry, when we started to export our products overseas, we applied for and met the necessary requirements of halal processing for a segment of our business. Butterball whole turkeys are produced in a manner that meets those requirements if needed, but only turkeys exported to specific countries are certified halal."

    So, halal processing, the way in which the blade cuts the turkey neck, is true of some Butterball turkeys. This does not make Butterball truly halal or halal certified. Certified halal, with the halal stamp, means that all conditions have been met, and only those turkeys exported to Muslim countries are truly halal.

    So this looks like a scare by Pamela Gellar, nothing more.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •