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  1. #11  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    This should only apply to people who have agreed to this, and should be legally treated as an issue of contracts. I believe civil courts deal with issues of contracts, so if two adults enter into a contract based on Islamic Law, Jewish Law, family tradition, or just a random mish-mash, that contract should be upheld as long as it is legally binding.

    Of course religious law should not supercede criminal law, but I see no problem using it for the purpose of civil contracts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CueSi View Post
    Psh, could be redoing the 'let's march the Jews into the sea'. . .or maybe they're coming right for us.

    ~QC
    Now, now....;)
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Now, now....;)
    I'm not saying it will happen, but if people can concede there is a demographic crisis in Europe, maybe we can start talking honestly. The native population is slowly being displaced by something that may not be friendly to the indigenous culture.

    We're Americans. We know what that shit looks like. Maybe it's time to use that knowledge to our advantage.

    ~QC
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

    Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post

    Of course religious law should not supercede criminal law, but I see no problem using it for the purpose of civil contracts.
    Let's take domestic abuse, which is currently being handled by sharia courts in England:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-Britain.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/j...ligious-courts

    Beating one's wife is a criminal act. Yet, it is being handled by these sharia courts. The punishments meted out to abusive husbands are "anger management classes". Nothing further. If you read the telegraph article, the Islamic court was more concerned with "saving the marriage" than protecting the woman from abuse.

    We can also look at civil actions such as divorce and child custody, for which sharia law does not bode well:

    http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/20...pair-code.html


    Only someone who really doesn't understand sharia law could OK it as a parallel legal system. You certainly must be a male, Wei Wu Wei, since any female would understand these possible pitfalls. And like other left wing males I have met, if it doesn't affect you, then it's fine. What's another oppressed and beaten female who loses custody of her children?
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CueSi View Post
    I'm not saying it will happen, but if people can concede there is a demographic crisis in Europe, maybe we can start talking honestly. The native population is slowly being displaced by something that may not be friendly to the indigenous culture.

    We're Americans. We know what that shit looks like. Maybe it's time to use that knowledge to our advantage.

    ~QC
    I'm with you on that.

    Suggestions?
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  6. #16  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Let's take domestic abuse, which is currently being handled by sharia courts in England:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-Britain.html
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/j...ligious-courts

    Beating one's wife is a criminal act. Yet, it is being handled by these sharia courts. The punishments meted out to abusive husbands are "anger management classes". Nothing further. If you read the telegraph article, the Islamic court was more concerned with "saving the marriage" than protecting the woman from abuse.

    We can also look at civil actions such as divorce and child custody, for which sharia law does not bode well:

    http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/20...pair-code.html


    Only someone who really doesn't understand sharia law could OK it as a parallel legal system. You certainly must be a male, Wei Wu Wei, since any female would understand these possible pitfalls. And like other left wing males I have met, if it doesn't affect you, then it's fine. What's another oppressed and beaten female who loses custody of her children?
    It's not my place to tell women what religion they can follow or what contracts they can enter into, it's not my place to pretend to know better than they do.

    If a woman wants to enter into a sharia-based contract, that's her business. I'm not going to question her motivations or act like she has no agency of her own.

    Also, I think here in the US we should stay firm with our distinction between civil contracts and criminal law. Domestic abuse is a criminal issue and it should remain that way, regardless of what a contract says.

    I'm happy with being very firm on establishing limits between contracts and criminal laws, but adults should be able to live according to their own rules within the scope of criminal laws, and that includes religious laws and contracts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    It's not my place to tell women what religion they can follow or what contracts they can enter into, it's not my place to pretend to know better than they do.

    If a woman wants to enter into a sharia-based contract, that's her business. I'm not going to question her motivations or act like she has no agency of her own.
    Does this also apply to "honor" killings? Should that be allowed under the same umbrella?


    Also, I think here in the US we should stay firm with our distinction between civil contracts and criminal law. Domestic abuse is a criminal issue and it should remain that way, regardless of what a contract says.

    I'm happy with being very firm on establishing limits between contracts and criminal laws, but adults should be able to live according to their own rules within the scope of criminal laws, and that includes religious laws and contracts.
    Of course you're happy. It doesn't apply to you. You're conveniently tolerant when it comes to the suffering of women. So are all the left wing men I know.

    Let's change it up a bit. Suppose a tolerated religious legal system required that every family donate one child to the religious life, regardless of how many children they had. (The Catholic Church used to require that families tithe children to the church in the middle ages. That is how Hildegard von Bingen became a nun: her family tithed her to the Catholic church.)

    Let's say it was you, Wei Wu Wei, who were the tithed child in your family. You did not wish to be tithed, you wanted to get married and have a family. You are afraid of the church and of the potential for sexual abuse. Should there be an intervention by the legal system of the nation preventing your being tithed?
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    It's not my place to tell women what religion they can follow or what contracts they can enter into, it's not my place to pretend to know better than they do.

    If a woman wants to enter into a sharia-based contract, that's her business. I'm not going to question her motivations or act like she has no agency of her own.

    Also, I think here in the US we should stay firm with our distinction between civil contracts and criminal law. Domestic abuse is a criminal issue and it should remain that way, regardless of what a contract says.

    I'm happy with being very firm on establishing limits between contracts and criminal laws, but adults should be able to live according to their own rules within the scope of criminal laws, and that includes religious laws and contracts.
    In many cases, she may not have any agency of her own. And she may not be entering this contract willingly.

    ~QC
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

    Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    I'm with you on that.

    Suggestions?
    My solutions flux from day to day. Sometimes I really do think we should insist on acculturation. Not just teach the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, but teach what they actually mean to everyday people, and if they cannot accept it, no, you cannot become a citizen. If you can't accept the culture of the US, GTHO.

    If a murder involves an honor killing, use those hate crime sentence amplifiers. Make it clear we will protect our women/kids/lbgt's no matter where they may have been born. No one should even think of killing their daughter/wife/son for going against the will of Allah.

    Spy on mosques... people watch churches for violating IRS/501 3c rules for crossing the line into politics, maybe we should do the same for mosques and terror.

    Start using the Israeli method in airport security. My aunt is the biggest nervous nelly I know, but she manages to make it to and from Israel w/no problem. Maybe because they're smart enough to know a little old Jamaican lady in a mantilla isn't going to blow nothing but the bathroom.

    Tax breaks for native born American citizens (no matter their race) who have more than two children and both parents in the house. It's a minimal measure to prevent the possible European demographic bomb.

    For the love of God, strengthen the border. I've seen enough Arabs that look like Latinos and Latinos to look like Arabs to make me think, "Some jackass at Al-Queda is already doing Spanish Rosetta Stone."

    ~QC
    "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

    Context doesn't matter to this liberal it seems/ as long as it satisfies his godless dreams/ like monkeys throwing sh!t as castles in air/ as long as he throws/that is the extent of his care.
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  10. #20  
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    See, in America, we don't actually ban any ideas, even stupid or evil ones. You can be a Nazi, or even a Liberal, if you want to.
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