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  1. #1 Occupy Student Debt Pledge Only 997,281 Signatures Shy of Goal 
    Super Moderator bijou's Avatar
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    For the movement that has supposedly gripped the nation and has the whole world watching (and snickering), you would think the goal to have student debt eliminated (pure fantasy, of course) would have hundreds of thousands of the indebted rushing to sign up, right?

    Uh, not exactly.

    Over the past three months, as Occupy Wall Street has pitched a tent in the American consciousness, doubters have had the same refrain: “But what do they want?” Mothers, uncles, family friends, family of friends, they’ve all asked me—their token 20-something—some version of this. They argued that a movement was not a movement just because it wanted to move somewhere. It also needed to know exactly how it was going to get there. Apparently, all revolutions must now come with a built-in GPS.

    A month ago, Occupy Wall Street made a demand. Or, as is the way in the nested hierarchy of OWS, a subcommittee of a committee of the movement made a demand. They want all student debt in the country forgiven. All $1 trillion of it. And if the government would be so kind, they’d appreciate if it would pay for higher education from here on out, as well.

    So this is what they—or at least some of they—want. But what has happened with this proposal, this great demand that we’ve all been waiting for?

    Hardly anybody has cared.

    The number cited in the story is slightly lower than what current is on the site, currently at 2,719. ...
    http://www.jammiewf.com/2011/occupy-...s-shy-of-goal/
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  2. #2  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    Oh don't you worry...Nadin says they are working (I know, hard to believe) on a Super Secret OWS Plan that will shock everyone!!!!! :eek::D
    May the FORCE be with you!
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  3. #3  
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    These OWS types do not realize the downside of their demands.

    If government pays for their education, the government will decide who gets educated and what they will become educated in, much like the soviet style education system.

    The US system allows anyone with aptitude and financing to go to college. In a government financed system, they will only be educated if they are selected to be educated. The best they can hope for is the German style of education where their educational future will be determined at the end of fourth grade.

    Do they really want to trade an "unlimited" future for a system that may only limit them to a vocational or community college level of high education?
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  4. #4  
    Super Moderator BadCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubs View Post
    These OWS types do not realize the downside of their demands.

    If government pays for their education, the government will decide who gets educated and what they will become educated in, much like the soviet style education system.

    The US system allows anyone with aptitude and financing to go to college. In a government financed system, they will only be educated if they are selected to be educated. The best they can hope for is the German style of education where their educational future will be determined at the end of fourth grade.

    Do they really want to trade an "unlimited" future for a system that may only limit them to a vocational or community college level of high education?
    I don't have much problem with this type of educational system, Nubs. They need to STOP giving student loans for idiots that are seeking a 6 year degree in "Art". They need to put in place the same constraints as in any loan (well, any loan before the Dims messed them up), if the intended degree will not pay the $$ necessary to pay back the loan...no loan.

    rm -rf obama*
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadCat View Post
    I don't have much problem with this type of educational system, Nubs. They need to STOP giving student loans for idiots that are seeking a 6 year degree in "Art". They need to put in place the same constraints as in any loan (well, any loan before the Dims messed them up), if the intended degree will not pay the $$ necessary to pay back the loan...no loan.
    I do agree with you also but with a twist

    Currently, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy court. So all these students who cannot pay back loans are on the hook FOR LIFE. What needs to happen is that these loans need to be able to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. Assuming govt sticks with the rules and does not pull a Fannie/Freddie, this will force the banks to perform due diligence on the student and prospective degree. If the degree will not pay back the loan, the student does not go to college. This way the bank does not get screwed, the student does not screw himself, and society is not asked to pick up the tab.

    To quote Judge Smales; "The world needs ditch-diggers too"
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    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubs View Post
    I do agree with you also but with a twist

    Currently, student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy court. So all these students who cannot pay back loans are on the hook FOR LIFE. What needs to happen is that these loans need to be able to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. Assuming govt sticks with the rules and does not pull a Fannie/Freddie, this will force the banks to perform due diligence on the student and prospective degree. If the degree will not pay back the loan, the student does not go to college. This way the bank does not get screwed, the student does not screw himself, and society is not asked to pick up the tab.

    To quote Judge Smales; "The world needs ditch-diggers too"
    Exactly. Federally guaranteed student loans take the risk out of lending and borrowing. The loans carry no risk for the banks, and defaulting carries no risk for the students. It's a lose/lose proposition for the taxpayers.

    Normally, a bank makes a loan based on its projected return. If a bank has a choice between lending it to someone who is going to pay it back, vs. someone who won't, then they will go with the one who is the better risk every time, unless their incentives are completely subverted by a market distortion. In a free market, the interest rate charged for a student loan would factor in the type of degree that the person is seeking and the employment prospects of someone with that degree, as well as prior history of academic performance, which would demonstrate the likelyhood of achieving the degree. A student with a 4.0 GPA who took every AP class under the sun, and who was going for electrical engineering, would most likely pay less interest than a student with a 1.5 GPA who has his sights set on a degree in Medievel Basket Weaving or Feminist Dialectics. A student who really, truly wanted to make a living in a liberal arts field (as opposed to being an artsy dilletante) would have to weigh the costs and benefits of the degree against their passion and commitment, and the colleges would have less incentive to offer classes that offer no real value to students, but provide sinecures for faculty in bloated departments. Students would have incentives to perform and get through school with the minimum possible cost, colleges would have incentives to teach useful skills and knowledge and eliminate worthless electives and majors and banks would have incentives to make loans. The only losers are those schools and teachers who specialize in churning out dolts with useless degrees in fields that have no application in the real world, and who end up going back to those same schools to teach the next generation of useless nitwits.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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