Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 38
  1. #11  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    12,408
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I suppose you don't really need a reason and can't be compelled to disclose your reason, but it seems that a lot of the political speech at Occupy goes unexplained, unfocussed, or unjustified.

    Not to mention, only an idiot would think that burning a US flag would draw fans or enhance credibility.

    Dear Occupy Charlotte- 1972 is calling and wants its stupid back.
    Yeah, burning the American flag has lost it's shock value, as far as political protest is concerned. The Iranians did it so many times in the late 70s, that it's definitely not a statement that people claiming to love the US would want to make.


    They have the right to burn a flag, but they don't have the right to risk public safety while doing so. OWS sites are probably becoming fire traps by now.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #12  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Yeah, burning the American flag has lost it's shock value, as far as political protest is concerned. The Iranians did it so many times in the late 70s, that it's definitely not a statement that people claiming to love the US would want to make.

    They have the right to burn a flag, but they don't have the right to risk public safety while doing so. OWS sites are probably becoming fire traps by now.
    I don't know that they have the right to desecrate the national colors, at least, not if they want to continue to call themselves Americans. The flag isn't partisan, even though it has become symbolic of the partisan divide, and belongs to all Americans, so burning it isn't simply an expression of dissent against a particular policy or set of policies, but a repudiation of America as a whole. It's like torching the Washington Monument or the Lincoln Memorial to make a political point. Nobody who loves this country, or considers themself a part of it would consider doing such a thing. Anyone who wants to publicly repudiate their connections to America has that right, but the consequence should be that they have publicly repudiated their connection to America, i.e., they have renounced their citizenship.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #13  
    CU Royalty JB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    7,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I don't know that they have the right to desecrate the national colors, at least, not if they want to continue to call themselves Americans <snip>
    No.

    And I thought you were just goofing around in post# 7. Apparently you're serious.

    But I want flag burning. Not just because I believe it's protected but because I want to know who the flag burners are. I want their pictures taken, videos posted of them, FBI files started (:D). I want them laughed at, ridiculed, pointed at and flipped off, etc, etc.
    Be Not Afraid.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #14  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    No.

    And I thought you were just goofing around in post# 7. Apparently you're serious.

    But I want flag burning. Not just because I believe it's protected but because I want to know who the flag burners are. I want their pictures taken, videos posted of them, FBI files started (:D). I want them laughed at, ridiculed, pointed at and flipped off, etc, etc.
    No, I want them ridiculed, flipped off, etc., etc., as well, but I want it done on their way out of the country.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #15  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,245
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Burning the flag should constitute a renunciation of citizenship and be legally binding. Anyone who chooses to publicly do so should be detained by ICE and offered their choice of deportation location.
    Have you heard of the first amendment? I'm not saying that because I favor burning a flag (so nobody go there). It's just what good is a first amendment favoring freedom of speech if it's not enforced?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #16  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Bavaria
    Posts
    7,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    No, I want them ridiculed, flipped off, etc., etc., as well, but I want it done on their way out of the country.
    Exactly.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #17  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Bavaria
    Posts
    7,617
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Have you heard of the first amendment?
    Ody and I defend it every day. We also see how it has been bastardized to mean things that cause the Founding Fathers to spin in their graves.

    I can guarantee you that someone burning the Flag in their day would have been killed.


    I'm not saying that because I favor burning a flag (so nobody go there).
    But you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be here defending this atrocious action.

    So screw you and your "don't go there".


    It's just what good is a first amendment favoring freedom of speech if it's not enforced?

    It's really sad and pathetic how you Libtards pick and choose what should and shouldn't be protected under the 1st Amendment.

    Buring a flag = protected

    Saying a prayer before a football game = violation.


    You're an idiot and so are the others like you defending this crap.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #18  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,245
    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Ody and I defend it every day. We also see how it has been bastardized to mean things that cause the Founding Fathers to spin in their graves.

    I can guarantee you that someone burning the Flag in their day would have been killed.




    But you do. Otherwise you wouldn't be here defending this atrocious action.

    So screw you and your "don't go there".





    It's really sad and pathetic how you Libtards pick and choose what should and shouldn't be protected under the 1st Amendment.

    Buring a flag = protected

    Saying a prayer before a football game = violation.


    You're an idiot and so are the others like you defending this crap.
    Tx, be really really really really lucky that I'm at work right now or you'd get more than an earfull.

    You need to get something through your head.

    Supporting a right does not equal supporting it. I'm for your right to be a hateful anti-liberal, anti-anything that's not like you person. That doesn't mean I support it. I support your RIGHT to be an overly hateful person in life because THIS IS AMERICA.

    You also need to learn the difference between analyzing something and having it as an opinion. You're very very very very simple minded.

    And yes, that WAS me holding my tongue.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #19  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Have you heard of the first amendment? I'm not saying that because I favor burning a flag (so nobody go there). It's just what good is a first amendment favoring freedom of speech if it's not enforced?
    I'm all for the First Amendment, but there have always been recognized limits on free speech, the classic examples being that you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, incite to riot or advocate the violent overthrow of the US government or murder of public officials. In short, we recognize that there are limits on speech that protect a more fundamental right, which is the right to life. Burning a flag (which is not "speech", BTW), is an incitement to riot, advocacy of violence against the United States and, if we want to play the liberal game, hate speech. It's a deliberate insult to the entire nation, not just our political policies or one administration, and a repudiation of everything that the flag represents. You want to make that statement? Fine. But actions have consequences, and the consequence of publicly repudiated the United States ought to be the renunciation of citizenship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Tx, be really really really really lucky that I'm at work right now or you'd get more than an earfull.

    You need to get something through your head.

    Supporting a right does not equal supporting it. I'm for your right to be a hateful anti-liberal, anti-anything that's not like you person. That doesn't mean I support it. I support your RIGHT to be an overly hateful person in life because THIS IS AMERICA.

    You also need to learn the difference between analyzing something and having it as an opinion. You're very very very very simple minded.

    And yes, that WAS me holding my tongue.
    ROFLOL! Maybe you should have waited until you had time to proof read your post.

    The

    A right is a freedom to act. Supporting a right means that you are supporting the right, even if you disagree with how the person conducting it exercises that right. One can support the right to speak, even if one disagrees with what is said, but that doesn't mean that you have to provide a forum for the speaker or disseminate their words, nor does the speaker have the "right" to be free of the consequences of their speech. Burning the flag has a specific meaning: the rejection of America. We should accept that and hold those who choose to reject America accountable for that. The Immigration and Nationality Act contains the provisions for renunciation of US citizenship:

    § 1481. LOSS OF NATIONALITY BY NATIVE-BORN OR NATURALIZED CITIZEN; VOLUNTARY ACTION; BURDEN OF PROOF; PRESUMPTIONS

    (a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
    (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
    (2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
    (3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
    (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
    (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or
    (4)
    (A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or
    (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or
    (5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or
    (6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or
    (7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.
    (b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.
    I simply propose that the act be amended to add the following:

    (6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, or the deliberate, public destruction or desecration of the National Colors whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or
    We're at war. They're burning the flag. Actions have consequences. See below for an example that should have resulted in immediate deportation and exile.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1FHeIP53Q
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #20  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,245
    Ody,

    What I'm meaning to say is that supporting the right to do something doesn't mean I support the actual action. I should have been more clear earlier. I'll get to the rest of your post later. I'm still mad. You have no idea how close I am to calling somebody out. I get a little sick of this "with us or against us" closed minded mentality.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •