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  1. #31  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I was aware of the particulars in both cases, and I consider both cases to be political. It's not a disagreement on the facts between us, or one of who is smarter, I simply disagree with what was done in this case. Parents make poor choices all the time. Trust me that you don't want to live by my mother's rules for men and children. I regard the arrest of the parent and taking custody of the child to be reserved for the inarguably neglectful, endangering, or abusive parent. That simply was not the case here. This man has been treated as if he left the kid in the trunk while he went to buy crack. Now I may have missed that part in whatever article you are working from now, and God forbid I should question a newspaper, but so far I haven't seen anything that rises to child abuse. Even the police only charged with "attempted child abuse" whatever that is. Since I haven't read anything to suggest that he was attempting to abuse the child, I'm guessing that he will have his charges dropped, and still have to go through a mess of BS to get his kid back.
    No, he didn't lock the kid in a trunk while he bought crack, he locked her in a tent with no adult supervision and left for some other reason...in an area where multiple violent crimes had taken place...in an area where rats could have literally eaten her fingers. You are obviously not a parent, have no idea what can happen to small children left alone, and are only arguing because you don't know enough to know how incredibly stupid you sound. You have enough sense to freak out when your 12 year old niece was out of sight, but not enough sense to see all the horrible things that could have happened to a 13 MONTH old child left all alone?? What do you keep between your ears? Bricks??
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    It has nothing to do with politics. That is the problem with you liberal freaks....you don't use common sense.
    It's not that they don't use common sense...it's just that Liberals...like Communists view everything no matter what it is through a political spectrum.

    EVERYTHING in life is political in some way to them.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  3. #33  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Novaheart;475075]I was aware of the particulars in both cases, and I consider both cases to be political. It's not a disagreement on the facts between us, or one of who is smarter, I simply disagree with what was done in this case. Parents make poor choices all the time. Trust me that you don't want to live by my mother's rules for men and children.
    Yeah, we've seen the result.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I regard the arrest of the parent and taking custody of the child to be reserved for the inarguably neglectful, endangering, or abusive parent. That simply was not the case here. This man has been treated as if he left the kid in the trunk while he went to buy crack. Now I may have missed that part in whatever article you are working from now, and God forbid I should question a newspaper, but so far I haven't seen anything that rises to child abuse. Even the police only charged with "attempted child abuse" whatever that is. Since I haven't read anything to suggest that he was attempting to abuse the child, I'm guessing that he will have his charges dropped, and still have to go through a mess of BS to get his kid back.
    He was charged with "attempted child cruelty", which encompasses neglect. The "attempted" caveat applies because the child was taken in before anything happened to her. Had she been hurt or killed, then it would have been child cruelty without the attempted qualifier.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrsSmith View Post
    No, he didn't lock the kid in a trunk while he bought crack, he locked her in a tent with no adult supervision and left for some other reason...in an area where multiple violent crimes had taken place...in an area where rats could have literally eaten her fingers. You are obviously not a parent, have no idea what can happen to small children left alone, and are only arguing because you don't know enough to know how incredibly stupid you sound. You have enough sense to freak out when your 12 year old niece was out of sight, but not enough sense to see all the horrible things that could have happened to a 13 MONTH old child left all alone?? What do you keep between your ears? Bricks??
    Bricks would be better than what he does have. Initially, the reports said that this was an infant. Now that we know it was a toddler, it's actually more dangerous. An infant can't wander off, although she could have rolled off of whatever they left her on. The father was lucky that she didn't end up falling into an open fire or playing with rusty needles near the heroin co-op.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    [
    Yeah, we've seen the result.

    .
    Oh look, Ody is doing his imitation of Rock.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Oh look, Ody is doing his imitation of Rock.
    In typical liberal fashion, knowing the argument is lost, you deflect the argument to something else. Ole!
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  6. #36  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Oh look, Ody is doing his imitation of Rock.
    Oh, look! Novaheart is wrong, but won't address the substance of the discussion. Again.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Novaheart is wrong.
    On any given warm day you can usually find young people swimming at the beach. Occasionally one washes up dead, but to date I have not heard about the parent being prosecuted for allowing a 12 year old to go swimming in Boca Ciega Bay unsupervised. If my mother ran the world, the parents of such a child would be horsewhipped. I grew up in a swamp, and we were not allowed to swim in the river or the ponds or the bay or the ocean unsupervised. Even when an older child was the supervision, that older child had to sit on the beach and watch the younger children.

    My uncle earned my mother's wrath one time for letting me play on the boat ramp. I slipped and fell into the river on an autumn day. It wasn't life threatening, but my mother never allowed my uncle to be in charge of me again.

    That's the extreme I was pointing out to you. Different people exercise different levels of caution with their children. I freaked out because a 12 year old disappeared from sight in Washington DC's Dupont Circle at 5 PM on a sunny summer day. Was I overreacting? Most people would say that I was, and she certainly thought that I did. She was not in imminent danger, but I have watch too many TV dramas where young girls disappear in a flash. If she had disappeared, I don't think anyone would have brought charges against me, I didn't do anything wrong.

    Do you have any notion of how quick some people are to call DCF or the police? There are people who think letting a toddler play with a Pit Bull or a Rotty is tantamount to dangling the child off a freeway overpass.

    This man left his child in a tent in what he considered safe surroundings. She was not harmed. All the could-have-happened-this-ways in the world don't change the particulars. He left his daughter in a tent on a cold day in the rain. There are aboriginal people around the world who live in tents or huts in winter and summer.

    Until some other fact surfaces, some damning fact about the condition of the child or of the father, then I'll stick with my assessment that it was a poor choice by our standards but doesn't rise to the level of neglect or abuse.
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  8. #38  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    On any given warm day you can usually find young people swimming at the beach. Occasionally one washes up dead, but to date I have not heard about the parent being prosecuted for allowing a 12 year old to go swimming in Boca Ciega Bay unsupervised. If my mother ran the world, the parents of such a child would be horsewhipped. I grew up in a swamp, and we were not allowed to swim in the river or the ponds or the bay or the ocean unsupervised. Even when an older child was the supervision, that older child had to sit on the beach and watch the younger children.

    My uncle earned my mother's wrath one time for letting me play on the boat ramp. I slipped and fell into the river on an autumn day. It wasn't life threatening, but my mother never allowed my uncle to be in charge of me again.

    That's the extreme I was pointing out to you. Different people exercise different levels of caution with their children. I freaked out because a 12 year old disappeared from sight in Washington DC's Dupont Circle at 5 PM on a sunny summer day. Was I overreacting? Most people would say that I was, and she certainly thought that I did. She was not in imminent danger, but I have watch too many TV dramas where young girls disappear in a flash. If she had disappeared, I don't think anyone would have brought charges against me, I didn't do anything wrong.

    Do you have any notion of how quick some people are to call DCF or the police? There are people who think letting a toddler play with a Pit Bull or a Rotty is tantamount to dangling the child off a freeway overpass.

    This man left his child in a tent in what he considered safe surroundings. She was not harmed. All the could-have-happened-this-ways in the world don't change the particulars. He left his daughter in a tent on a cold day in the rain. There are aboriginal people around the world who live in tents or huts in winter and summer.

    Until some other fact surfaces, some damning fact about the condition of the child or of the father, then I'll stick with my assessment that it was a poor choice by our standards but doesn't rise to the level of neglect or abuse.
    Aside from providing insights into your abominable upbringing, that really doesn't address the facts of this case. This isn't a twelve year old swimming in a river unsupervised, it's a toddler that was left unsupervised in a tent city full of vagrants, lunatics and criminals, not to mention that the toddler was in an unheated tent in inclement weather. The legal definition of neglect and abuse is, at the federal level:

    • Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; or
    • An act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.

    Leaving a toddler alone under those circumstances more than satisfies the second condition.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Aside from providing insights into your abominable upbringing, n't .
    From the likes of you... Lol
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  10. #40  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    From the likes of you... Lol
    I suppose that we should be impressed that you aren't simply writing "I know you are, but what am I?"
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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