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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    What do those two statements have to do with Israel?
    Well, other than the fact that Israel does tend to have lots of Jews living there, nothing. Are you seriously trying to claim that those kinds of statements are "criticism of Israel?"
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  2. #22  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Well, other than the fact that Israel does tend to have lots of Jews living there, nothing. Are you seriously trying to claim that those kinds of statements are "criticism of Israel?"
    No, he's trying to tick you off with technicality statements.
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  3. #23  
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    At Occupy Los Angeles, one sign explained, in remarkable detail: the “[The] satanic cult called the Illuminati…represents Masonic and Jewish bankers who finagled a monopoly over government credit….Thus the people who control our purse strings are conspiring against us.” (It went on to claim how this nefarious force funded the first two world wars and is planning a third.) Another sign read “Humanity vs. the Rothschlds” [sic] as a speaker further advanced this classic trope: “How many people know that the wars, in WWII, both sides, were funded by the Rothschilds? Those are the bankers. So banking and war is [sic] very intertwined.”
    :eek::eek:

    These sound like late-night radio listeners. Not enough tin foil in the world for that.:D
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Well, other than the fact that Israel does tend to have lots of Jews living there, nothing. Are you seriously trying to claim that those kinds of statements are "criticism of Israel?"
    No.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    No.
    OK, then we're back to antisemitism pervading OWS. Nothing new there; the Left is filled with antisemites.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  6. #26  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    OK, then we're back to antisemitism pervading OWS. Nothing new there; the Left is filled with antisemites.
    Now, that's not fair. The right has a lot of them too.

    Stuff I've heard from conservatives:

    The Jews have always been a stiff necked people. They're hardened. That's why they couldn't accept Jesus.

    The Jews killed Jesus (nevermind that they needed the Romans, who also felt threatened by Jesus to do this).

    Of course I support Israel. Errrrrr. Because God wants me to, and the truth is we're not supporting Jewish Israel as much as future Christian Israel. (Okay, I'll admit that I didn't hear that word for word, but some of these fundamentlists do pretty much say that).

    Oh, and how many fundamentalist Christians just loooooove the Passions of the Christ by Mel Gibson? Their argument is that it's biblical. Not completely. There are scenes in there that aren't in the bible at all. When I did further research, I found that Mel Gibson had borrowed information from nuns who were openly anti-semite. One of them said that Jews put children in their passover bread. Do all these people supporting the film care about any of that? Nope. They also don't care that Gibson's father denies the holocaust and that Gibson has never spoken out against it.

    Another thing I don't like is that Mel Gibson aside, conservative Christians don't like to tell the entire story behind Jesus's execution. Yes, there were some zealous Jewish leaders. There was also Roman occupation. They executed people who they felt got into their way. Jesus got in their way when he said that they shouldn't be turning his father's house into a house of thieves (charging Jews just for using the synagogue). I think about a million Jews were murdered during Roman occupation. Do conservative Christians have anything to say about that? No. I understand the focus of the story is to concentrate on Jesus and what he did for us, but do you realize how much of a slap in the face it is not to even acknowledge this in the story when we tell it? It's an even further slap in the face to portray Jews as somehow bad for wishing Jesus would do something about it. I do believe in Jesus as our messiah, but I honestly think the entire story should be getting told and it's not. I don't know how liberal churches present this story because I haven't been there. I do know how conservative churches and synagogues present this story. World of difference.

    So honestly, I think the conservative side has a long way to go before they can truly point the finger at the left. If you want to say that parts of the radical left are anti-semite, then fine. My ultra leftist professor admitted it to me years ago. Don't point the finger and pretend your side is innocent.
    Last edited by Lanie; 01-26-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    OK, then we're back to antisemitism pervading OWS. Nothing new there; the Left is filled with antisemites.
    OK.

    But what does that have to do with the attempt in the OP to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism?
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Now, that's not fair. The right has a lot of them too.

    Stuff I've heard from conservatives:

    The Jews have always been a stiff necked people. They're hardened. That's why they couldn't accept Jesus.

    The Jews killed Jesus (nevermind that they needed the Romans, who also felt threatened by Jesus to do this).

    Of course I support Israel. Errrrrr. Because God wants me to, and the truth is we're not supporting Jewish Israel as much as future Christian Israel. (Okay, I'll admit that I didn't hear that word for word, but some of these fundamentlists do pretty much say that).

    Oh, and how many fundamentalist Christians just loooooove the Passions of the Christ by Mel Gibson? Their argument is that it's biblical. Not completely. There are scenes in there that aren't in the bible at all. When I did further research, I found that Mel Gibson had borrowed information from nuns who were openly anti-semite. One of them said that Jews put children in their passover bread. Do all these people supporting the film care about any of that? Nope. They also don't care that Gibson's father denies the holocaust and that Gibson has never spoken out against it.

    So honestly, I think the conservative side has a long way to go before they can truly point the finger at the left. If you want to say that parts of the radical left are anti-semite, then fine. My ultra leftist professor admitted it to me years ago. Don't point the finger and pretend your side is innocent.
    Oh please. You're taking "grasping" to a whole new level.

    I defy you to find similar actual documented examples on the Right of things like this, this, this, or this. I can save you some time by telling you don't bother, because there is no such antisemitism on the Right. Are there some conservative antisemites? Yes. Is it pervasive amongst conservatives? No.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    OK.

    But what does that have to do with the attempt in the OP to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism?
    The OP does not attempt to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. The OP points out that antisemitism at OWS (in this case) is attempting to mask itself in the cloak of legitimate criticism of Israel.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  10. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    The OP does not attempt to equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism. The OP points out that antisemitism at OWS (in this case) is attempting to mask itself in the cloak of legitimate criticism of Israel.
    Yes. That is the accusation that is used to silence criticism of the nation of Israel.

    How are these antisemitic?


    “Obama stop giving bunker buster bombs to an extremist Israeli regime. Stop being Israel’s hit-man. AIPAC will still dump you in 2012.”

    “USA and Israel are criminal psychopathic nations, an axis of evil, mass murderers, financial predators if not stopped no one has a future! Hands off Iran.”

    “Occupy Wall Street, Not Palestine,”

    “Palestinians, too, are part of the 99% around the world that suffer at the hands of the 1% whose greed and ruthless quest for hegemony have led to unspeakable suffering and endless war.”

    “while people are losing jobs, homes, and hope, politicians—dominated by powerful special interests—are sending more of our tax money to Israel than to any other country on earth.”
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