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02-21-2012, 11:19 AM
Perhaps we don't understand because those other federal taxes don't amount to enough to add pertinence to the discussion. Most of those other federal taxes are based on use, such as the federal tax on gasoline. So that doesn't lend itself to a debate about "fair" and "equitable" tax policy. It's the federal income tax where we see most evidence of the government using the tax code for political purposes.
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02-21-2012, 11:20 AM
Talk radio entertainers like Hannity tend to quote the highest possible amount of taxes paid, including all taxes (state, local, sales, SS, real estate, etc....), and Hannity in particular has claimed that he pays a truly incredible amount.
But when it comes to poor people and lower wage earners- these same jackasses only want to talk about federal taxes. They poo-poo the total bite taken from a person's income when you calculate all the taxes that lower income people pay and the fact that it's usually higher as a portion of income.
Here is an example. A woman who makes $10/hr and pays $1000 a year in property tax is paying about 5% of her income in tax. Between fuel, comunications, utilities, and sales tax she pays out another 10% of income. So 15% or more of her income is going to taxes, including the taxes which actually go to any services she is consuming on the local level. So to call her some kind of freeloader because she doesn't pay federal tax is bullshit.
Meanwhile, the last time I saw something on this, Exxon was getting $2.00 in tax dollar support for every gallon of gasoline they sell.
Meanwhile, the average Walmart has its wages supplemented to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per store.
Meanwhile, McDonald's pay rate is supplemented by Section 8, SNAP, WIC, and childcare vouchers.While you were hanging yourself , on someone else's words
Dying to believe in what you heard
I was staring straight into the shining sun
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02-21-2012, 11:30 AM
Ah, we've established your field of expertise: Excrement!
As everyone here but you seems to understand, we all know that income taxes aren't the only federal taxes assessed. When an article talks about tax returns, it is understood by the people who pay income taxes (still a bare majority, BTW) that they are discussin income taxes. The only person claiming otherwise is you.
Is that why whenever you're asked to define a fair share, you run and hide?
I'll ask again: What constitutes a fair share of income to be taken out in taxes? Give me a number.
Uh, everbody knows that income taxes are what is being discussed.
So, because you don't like the argument, you don't care if it's factually accurate?
Ah... Another way of feeding at the trough.
It isn't. We keep saying that we're talking about income taxes. You're the only one trying to claim that we're obscuring something.
BTW, the tax preparers aren't getting rich off of poor people, they're getting rich off of the government, which is taking the money from the people who pay the taxes (yes, I mean income taxes, obviously just using the word "taxes" without the specific qualifier invalidates all other arguments in your myopic little world) and giving it to people who don't pay them. The people who file returns for refunds from income taxes that they never payed are getting a nice little piece of somebody else's pie, and the tax prep companies are skimming, just like the government skims, from the productive people.--Odysseus
Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.
Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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02-21-2012, 11:34 AM
10% across the board, everyone pays it, no refunds, no deduction, and Can't be raised. Get rid of Capital Gains and the death tax, cut spending dramatically and watch the economy boom like no other in the history of the world.
While I prefer the Fair Tax, a Flat tax would work just as well."Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings..." Patrick Henry
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02-21-2012, 11:34 AM
Nova, I agree with the argument that it's unjust to claim that the individual in your example isn't "paying any taxes." But all those taxes you describe are equitable and apply to all income levels the same. It's the epitome of fairness. It's the federal income tax that's at the forefront of the discussion because it's being used as a political tool of wealth redistribution rather than an honest, straightforward mechanism for funding the government.
Last edited by Lager; 02-21-2012 at 11:37 AM.
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02-21-2012, 11:35 AM
The taxonomy of turds:
At the very bottom: dogshit. the lowest of the low-ragpickers, bag ladies, and people who hang out in dung heaps. when you treat somebody like dogshit, your contempt knows no bounds. Next we have chickenshit. Chickenshit allows for certain humanity. A chickenshit may be a disgusting coward, but at least he's not dogshit.
Bullshit comes after that-blatant and aggressive untruths. But at a certain level, of course, we admire our liars, don't we? Bullshitters get elected, chickenshits, never.
At the top of the hierarchy, at the summit of the heap: horseshit. Horseshit is false too, but it is not manifestly false. Horseshit is subtle. It's nuanced. It plays to win. Horseshit fools some of the people some of the time. Divine justice, for example, is horseshit, not bullshit. Indeed, we hold horseshit in such esteem that we decline to bestow the epithet on one another. A person can be a bullshitter but only a horse can be a horseshitter.
~ Paraphrased from Bible Stories For Adults by James Morrow
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