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  1. #51  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    The problem is, the left doesn't want a "fair share". To be fair means everyone should be paying the same rate. What the left wants is exactly the same way that it is. They want the "poor" to be excused from any tax burden whatsoever and they want most if not all the burden put on the top 1%. But they talk fairness so let's be fair. Fair would be a static % of one's income. If that were to come to pass, the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be deafening. This is why the left is so resistant to the fair tax. They claim that the rich still get off easy because it's a consumption tax. But let's look at a flat tax. Say a flat tax of 15% was imposed. Keeping things simple:

    Someone earning $20,000 taxed at 15% would pay $3000 a year.
    Someone earning $100,000 per year would pay $15,000 a year.

    But the left won't see it this way. They would wail and gnash teeth that it's unfair that someone making $100K is paying the same tax rate as someone making $20K and their lemmings lap it up even though in reality, the person making $100K is paying 5X that of the person making $20K. Hell, someone making $40K would be paying twice that of someone making $20K. This is why yoyo won't give us a number. It's because it's not what he and his ilk want. They not only want the top earners paying more, they want some of what is being confiscated to trickle down to the lower end of the spectrum. The only true fair way to taxation is with either the Fair Tax or a flat tax.
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  2. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    OK. I live in a 15 year old 1900 s/ft ranch. I pay 900 dollars a year in taxes because I'm over 65. The question then becomes, "Where did a person making 10/hour get the money to buy my house?"

    He didn't. He can't. At 10/hour people have to rent and their rent should be not more than 400/month. They ain't paying no 1,000/year in property tax.

    And you oughta just give up on this idea of creating straw victims that you can then point to as a perfect example of whatever point you are trying to make. Do some work, and find some figures that support your position.
    The world is as you see it from your window isn't it? Well it isn't. Fifteen to twenty years ago you could buy a house in many parts of Florida for $25,000 to $50,000. Actually, right now you can buy them almost as cheaply. You also don't have to mortgage the entire amount if you have a chunk of cash which you inherited. Others have taken out loans on paid for properties. Lots of people make $10/hr now who made the same or more 15 years ago. I realize that these people aren't as smart as you are, or they would live in some godforsaken place in New Jersey, wouldn't they? But there are people who make $10/hr who pay $1,000 a year in property tax.
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  3. #53  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    The problem is, the left doesn't want a "fair share". To be fair means everyone should be paying the same rate. What the left wants is exactly the same way that it is. They want the "poor" to be excused from any tax burden whatsoever and they want most if not all the burden put on the top 1%. But they talk fairness so let's be fair. Fair would be a static % of one's income. If that were to come to pass, the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be deafening. This is why the left is so resistant to the fair tax. They claim that the rich still get off easy because it's a consumption tax. But let's look at a flat tax. Say a flat tax of 15% was imposed. Keeping things simple:

    Someone earning $20,000 taxed at 15% would pay $3000 a year.
    Someone earning $100,000 per year would pay $15,000 a year.

    But the left won't see it this way. They would wail and gnash teeth that it's unfair that someone making $100K is paying the same tax rate as someone making $20K and their lemmings lap it up even though in reality, the person making $100K is paying 5X that of the person making $20K. Hell, someone making $40K would be paying twice that of someone making $20K. This is why yoyo won't give us a number. It's because it's not what he and his ilk want. They not only want the top earners paying more, they want some of what is being confiscated to trickle down to the lower end of the spectrum. The only true fair way to taxation is with either the Fair Tax or a flat tax.
    I would go with the flat tax on all income and eliminate payroll taxes altogether.

    I think a realistic starting point is Simpson-Bowles.
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  4. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    You do realize you've just made an argument for The Fair Tax don't you?
    And?
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  5. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    And?
    Just saying.
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  6. #56  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    The world is as you see it from your window isn't it? Well it isn't. Fifteen to twenty years ago you could buy a house in many parts of Florida for $25,000 to $50,000. Actually, right now you can buy them almost as cheaply. You also don't have to mortgage the entire amount if you have a chunk of cash which you inherited. Others have taken out loans on paid for properties. Lots of people make $10/hr now who made the same or more 15 years ago. I realize that these people aren't as smart as you are, or they would live in some godforsaken place in New Jersey, wouldn't they? But there are people who make $10/hr who pay $1,000 a year in property tax.
    Were you raped in NJ or something?
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  7. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettpett View Post
    I agree with you, I personally would like to see the property tax go the way of the dodo.

    I would like get away from both property and income taxes and go to only a Consumption tax. That coupled with the proposed amendment to cap spending and blanace the budget would go a long way to straightening out the government and keeping it from spending like a drunken sailor. Consumption is easy to assess and would be able to figure out how much there is to spend every year.

    Sadly it'll take some balls and people in positions that are most likely Lame ducks with a lot of political capital to push it through, or first term that would be willing to sacrifice a second term to get it done
    I like the idea, but I confess that I am unaware of any major world power which has such a tax system.

    I also think that sales tax is the easiest of all taxes to illegally avoid. Without an effective enforcement system and severe penalties for not charging sales tax it won't work.
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  8. #58  
    Senior Member Arroyo_Doble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I like the idea, but I confess that I am unaware of any major world power which has such a tax system.

    I also think that sales tax is the easiest of all taxes to illegally avoid. Without an effective enforcement system and severe penalties for not charging sales tax it won't work.

    If it is high enough, the underground economy would take over and commerce would be conducted outside of normal business channels giving an unfair advantage to the cheats.

    A so-called Fair Tax would be a disaster.
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  9. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Not too sure what a "ten cent millionaire" is.:tongue:
    It might mean different things in different places. Where I am from, it's someone who has made a little money and gotten above himself.
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  10. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Were you raped in NJ or something?
    I had a roommate from Franklin Lakes and my uncle Clyde was from Camden. I saw a bleeding merchant chasing a shoplifter down the boardwalk in Atlantic City and a drag show where Doris Day got machine gunned and Cass Elliott choked on a ham sandwich in the middle of Dream A Little Dream. I met eithr James Coco or Dom Deluise (can't remember which) at that same nightclub. I used to get pistachio ice cream at some place on the NJ Turnpike when I was a kid. A distant cousin was governor of NJ for 14 years. I always wanted to but never got around to taking the Lewes Cape May Ferry. Now you have my entire relationship with New Jersey.
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