Analysis: 'Fair share' in taxes? Not by the number!

[fettpett]

How often would anyone in the upper 25% buy a used car? My point is, even in a Fair Tax system, the wealthy will still pay more taxes.

true, but it's still more fair than any other system. the rich will get "soaked" but far less than the current system. plus it will drive prices down and make this one of the, if not they, most business friendly countries on the planet

[NJCardFan]

true, but it's still more fair than any other system. the rich will get "soaked" but far less than the current system. plus it will drive prices down and make this one of the, if not they, most business friendly countries on the planet

I agree and I'm all for the Fair Tax. My point is is that the left will still wail and gnash teeth over it.

[Starbuck]

How often would anyone in the upper 25% buy a used car? My point is, even in a Fair Tax system, the wealthy will still pay more taxes.

We do. Bought a used CRV a couple years ago. Good car. Paid 15,000 for it.

Dave Ramsey rules!:smile:

[Retread]

Originally Posted by Novaheart
Meanwhile, the last time I saw something on this, Exxon was getting $2.00 in tax dollar support for every gallon of gasoline they sell. ...

Evidence? Link? It's BS pure and simple.

There are $6 worth of guvmint funds built into every gallon of ethanol but the oil companies don't get a penny of it.

[Janice]

Nearly Half of All Americans Don’t Pay Income Taxes

This year’s Index of Dependence on Government presented startling findings about the sharp increase of Americans who rely on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid or other assistance.

Another eye-popping number was the percentage of Americans who don’t pay income taxes, which now accounts for nearly half of the U.S. population. Meanwhile, most of that population receives generous federal benefits.

“One of the most worrying trends in the Index is the coinciding growth in the non-taxpaying public,” wrote Heritage authors Bill Beach and Patrick Tyrrell. “The percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 49.5 percent in 2009.”

That means 151.7 million Americans paid nothing in 2009. By comparison, 34.8 million tax filers paid no taxes in 1984.

The rapid growth of Americans who don’t pay income taxes is particularly alarming for the fate of the American form of government, Beach and Tyrrell warned. Coupled with higher spending on government programs, it is already proving to be a major fiscal challenge.

“This trend should concern everyone who supports America’s republican form of government,” Beach and Tyrrell wrote. “If the citizens’ representatives are elected by an increasing percentage of voters who pay no income tax, how long will it be before these representatives respond more to demands for yet more entitlements and subsidies from non-payers than to the pleas of taxpayers to exercise greater spending prudence?”

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Barack Hussein 0bama: King of the Moochers, Patron Saint of the Parasites and Counselor of Fraud has gotta love this. Even White House senior adviser Valerie Jarrett is yucking it up saying that folks getting and spending unemployment checks is a healthy thing . . . because it stimulates the economy! I kid you not.

Will be nice when this band of America haters get their pink slips.

[Novaheart]

How often would anyone in the upper 25% buy a used car?

I'd say that depends on whether you are talking about the top 25% of income or the top 25% of wealth. The former probably buy a fair number of used cars, in fact the friends of mine with the highest earned income never buy a new car, they always buy one year old luxury cars. They have also owned three pretty spiffy cabin cruisers since I have known them- all used. The wealthiest man I personally know has a Mercedes that he probably bought new, but it's 20 years old now. I've never known wealthy people who weren't thrifty as well.

[Novaheart]

Evidence? Link? It's BS pure and simple.

There are $6 worth of guvmint funds built into every gallon of ethanol but the oil companies don't get a penny of it.

The subsidy to which I referred was the military cost of oil. And yes, the oil companies do benefit from it, because if gasoline were to cost $2.60 (my $2 plus your 60¢) per gallon more, demand would fall off and the price would come down. Exxon has unapologetically stated that their profit is a numerical calculation over cost; the higher the price of oil/gasoline , the more money they make.

[Novaheart]

We used to call them nickle millionaires ....

The price went up. The implication as I understood it was that such a person wasn't expected to be around long.

[Novaheart]

actually, for most of our history we had Consumption taxes, and relied almost solely on it.

Alexander Hamilton said this on it in Federalist Papers 21:


We made it through 120+ years without Income taxes, we can get rid of the Income tax and go back to the Consumption tax and grow even greater

Right, but we weren't a world power until after the current income tax was instituted. My point is simply that the point of sale tax , which I understand to be different from a tax on manufacturing and imports, would be difficult to enforce.

Source: Tax Foundation.
The nation had few taxes in its early history. From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government.

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.

The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.

In 1868, Congress again focused its taxation efforts on tobacco and distilled spirits and eliminated the income tax in 1872. It had a short-lived revival in 1894 and 1895. In the latter year, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that the income tax was unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states in conformity with the Constitution.

In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations. In fiscal year 1918, annual internal revenue collections for the first time passed the billion-dollar mark, rising to $5.4 billion by 1920. With the advent of World War II, employment increased, as did tax collections—to $7.3 billion. The withholding tax on wages was introduced in 1943 and was instrumental in increasing the number of taxpayers to 60 million and tax collections to $43 billion by 1945.



Read more: History of the Income Tax in the United States — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A00059...#ixzz1n7ihfa9Z

[fettpett]

difference between those taxes and the Fair tax or other consumption taxes would be the fair tax would be on all goods not just a few specific ones. We couldn't do tarrifs or excise taxes because they would kill trade. (just look at steel a few years ago). Consumption has always gone up (with a couple years during the Great Depression).

I would argue that the change to the Income tax hampered development more than it helped. It's more dangerous to freedom than consumption taxes as it punishes success far more than Consumption does.