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  1. #11  
    Drive-by Poster ABC in Georgia's Avatar
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    The year was 1963, when it all changed.

    For those of you too young to remember (or were not yet even born) back in 1963 ... the first name that came to mind for me "regarding removal of school prayer" ... was the name Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

    While she was not totally responsible for it, she did play a role and the MSM coverage was mainly all about her.

    Who Was Madalyn Murray O'Hair?
    <snip<

    Murray was known for her role in the landmark 1963 Supreme Court decision in Murray v. Curlett , which, combined with Abington v. Schempp , ended school prayer in public schools across the U.S. and turned her into the self-described "most hated woman in America."

    Read more here: http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Secu...ray-Ohair.aspx

    ~ ABC
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  2. #12  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    What are you basing this on?

    When you were a little girl, did your public school teacher lead the class in an organized prayer?

    .
    I went to Catholic schools, we started the morning with prayers and the Pledge of Allegiance.
    THE HORROR!
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  3. #13  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    I went to Catholic schools, we started the morning with prayers and the Pledge of Allegiance.
    THE HORROR!
    Off topic, you're sig is awesome.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  4. #14  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Off topic, you're sig is awesome.
    Thanks, their lyrics are always very profound. Another favorite line from Wish you were here that I had as my sig on another forum...."a smile from a veil, do you think you can tell?"
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  5. #15  
    Our widdle friend. Wei Wu Wei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    Thanks, their lyrics are always very profound. Another favorite line from Wish you were here that I had as my sig on another forum...."a smile from a veil, do you think you can tell?"
    That's my probably my favorite pink floyd song.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
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  6. #16  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    That's not true, again, at least not in Texas.

    There is a serious overblown hysteria about what schools are like. Fox News would have you think that kids get suspended for bowing their head before lunch and writing the word "God" or "Jesus" anywhere will get you expelled. It's a joke.

    Kids in school frequently wear their religion on their sleeves, they can write about it, they can talk about it, they share their experiences involving church and more. Schools do not participate in supporting any religion or religions, but they are open to them. Students don't have to leave their religion at the door, there is simply an expectation of all students to be respectful to one another.

    Don't buy into the nonsense, it's a fantasy.
    Like your economic theories?

    My daughter's school, in Temple, TX, was very careful to avoid religious expressions, although she did apparently get a lesson on Christianity from a substitute teacher, who managed to convey to her that they nailed Jesus to the cross so that he wouldn't fall off. I mentioned it to the principal the next time that I saw her, because I thought that it was funny, but she visibly flinched and asked if I wanted to file a complaint.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  7. #17  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    Thanks, their lyrics are always very profound. Another favorite line from Wish you were here that I had as my sig on another forum...."a smile from a veil, do you think you can tell?"
    Wish You Were Here is probably one of the greatest songs ever written and more so because it was from the heart. The entire album was a dedication to Syd Barrett who, oddly enough, showed up at the recording sessions but the members of the band didn't recognize him at first. Here is what he looked like at those sessions:


    The Biography Network did a bio of the band and it was as stirring a story I've ever seen. Shame of it is that Waters let his ego get the best of him by barely allowing Gilmore any input in a lot of the songwriting, especially for The Wall, which is pretty much 100% all Waters. I really hope for a reunion but without Richard Wright it's going to be very hard.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    What are you basing this on?

    When you were a little girl, did your public school teacher lead the class in an organized prayer?

    When I was a child, we were allowed to pray if we wanted, but it was not led. As I got into high school, "moment's of silence" were given where kids were specifically told they could dedicate that time to prayer if they so choose. Some kids would pray before lunch and church-going students organized their activities at school all the time. I prayed with my team before every football game throughout the years and it wasn't unusual for God to come up within in-class discussions. Of course these discussions never turned to the theological in any depth, but there were many church-going students who felt natural in bringing their beliefs into literature discussions or social studies.

    There is no difference from how things are done today. Again, my experiences are in reference to Texas because my experience are limited to Texas.
    She's basing this on case law. Duh.

    When I grew up, we did have a prayer every morning, and then recited the Pledge. We were allowed to sing actual hymns during our "Christmas" show (now deemed Holiday show), had Christmas vacation, Easter vacation and were allowed other **gasp** religious expressions in the classroom and in the school calendar.

    Today, news reports are full of instances where children have been punished for bringing Bibles or religious literature to school, Valedictorian students have experienced school-required edits to their speeches, and students have been ordered to stop wearing religious symbols like rosaries.

    A few decades ago, there was no reason or need for organizations like the ACLJ or FIRE. They now represent thousands of people every year that have had their free speech rights destroyed by the complaints of a few atheists.

    Your ignorance of current events does not constitute a basis for claiming "nothing has changed."
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    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
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  9. #19  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    I don't think every school district in the country bans prayer in school. Most just don't want teacher-led prayer during class time. No school can stop a student from praying silently, and students have the right to gather in the school after or before school to pray.

    My school was pretty open, as far as religion went, but there were occasionally issues. Young Life could put up signs in the halls to tell us where this week's meeting was going to be held, and their counselors could come and eat lunch with us (as could anyone's clergy), but they couldn't be in the yearbook. We didn't say the pledge every day in middle or high school, but the principal said a prayer on the p.a. system when President Reagan was shot. You could say grace over your lunch (in Grand Rapids you will see lots of people saying grace in restaurants) and pray with your friends if you felt like it at lunchtime or between classes.




    I'm neutral about the whole Christmas concert vs Winter concert thing-a creative music teacher can figure a way around it. If our high school choir and orchestra combined to play Vivaldi's "Gloria" for our "Winter Concert", then we were admired for our ability to play such grown up music, not criticized for performing "christian" music.
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  10. #20  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Wish You Were Here is probably one of the greatest songs ever written and more so because it was from the heart. The entire album was a dedication to Syd Barrett
    Yes it was..

    Pink Floyd is my favorite band...EVER. They are at the top of my long list of favorite musicians. They are poets.
    Last edited by Hawkgirl; 02-29-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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