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  1. #21  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    It's bad and I'm glad that they got the guy responsible, but it's still you guys who are actively serving who are going to ultimately pay for this guy's actions. Time to bring you all home.
    The left has been clamoring to bring us home from the moment we go there, so you'll pardon me if I remain a bit skeptical. The fact is that we have a legitimate mission there, which is to prevent a repeat of 9/11. Negotiating with the people who harbored the perpetrators of 9/11 doesn't really work as part of that mission, but defeating them completely and destroying their capacity to function does.

    Nation-building is a multi-generational project, and we clearly don't have the stomach for it anymore. Therefore, our mission needs to be one that can be accomplished with less long term commitment. From here on in, when someone acts against the US, our policy needs to be that we will hunt them down and kill them, regardless of where they hide, and any nation that harbors them is subject to the full wrath of our reprisals. That wouldn't mean boots on the ground, necessarily, but in the case of Afghanistan, we should have gone in, wiped the floor with the Afghan Taliban and put their enemies in charge, then left them the means to run the place with as much brutality as required. In the case of Pakistan, at the very least, it should have entailed a cutoff of aid. Saddam should have been overthrown, as we did, and replaced by the Kurds, who understand the value of loyalty and are not afraid to fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Not good. My unit that I just retired from is over there. I know over four hundred of those Soldiers and this doesn't bode well for them.
    Agreed. We've gone from a war almost won to an ignominious retreat. Thanks, Obama.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The left has been clamoring to bring us home from the moment we go there, so you'll pardon me if I remain a bit skeptical. The fact is that we have a legitimate mission there, which is to prevent a repeat of 9/11. Negotiating with the people who harbored the perpetrators of 9/11 doesn't really work as part of that mission, but defeating them completely and destroying their capacity to function does............................snip.............. .
    Agreed. We've gone from a war almost won to an ignominious retreat. Thanks, Obama.
    All known leftist/DimoRAT traits widely known prior to every election. Yet, the American voting public continues to vote for these leftist, anti-American morons.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    How many civilians have died in Afghanistan and Iraq as a direct or indirect result of military engagements since 2001 and 2003 respectively?
    The Moors are a scourge upon humanity. Smite them.
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  4. #24  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Does this also apply in our wars with Japan and Vietnam?
    We had some purposeful civilian casualties in Vietnam, which got exploited to supposedly represent the majority of civilian casualties.

    We dropped an atomic bomb on Japan. I don't believe that was necessary. It's been argued that they were on the verge of surrendering. Furthermore, they still wouldn't surrender until the emperer gave the okay and we passively allowed him to stay. It didn't last forever, but we passively allowed the emperor to stay. Had we agreed to that before, they would have surrendered sooner.


    And in any case, we're talking about Afghanistan.

    STOP BEING AN ASSSSSHOOLLLLLLEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!


    It's not just you. I'm just taking it all out on you.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member Chuck58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    The Moors are a scourge upon humanity. Smite them.
    Finally, you make some sense.
    Last edited by Chuck58; 03-12-2012 at 07:54 PM.
    The poster formerly known as chuck58 on the old board.
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  6. #26  
    Grouchy Old Broad Kay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    From here on in, when someone acts against the US, our policy needs to be that we will hunt them down and kill them, regardless of where they hide, and any nation that harbors them is subject to the full wrath of our reprisals. That wouldn't mean boots on the ground, necessarily, but in the case of Afghanistan, we should have gone in, wiped the floor with the Afghan Taliban and put their enemies in charge, then left them the means to run the place with as much brutality as required.
    That is the only way a war should ever be waged to begin with.
    The best policy is to follow the Genghis Kahn Method of Warfare.
    No child left behind. If it finally comes to war, then it should be
    waged all out to win by crushing and conquering fast and hard.
    The hearts and minds can either follow along or perish.

    They keep showing this one news clip of a woman talking about
    a 2 year old child that was killed. She says "I've never seen a
    Taliban that was 2 years old .... I recall pictures of little Talies
    with bombs strapped to them in their parents arms.
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  7. #27  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay View Post

    They keep showing this one news clip of a woman talking about
    a 2 year old child that was killed. She says "I've never seen a
    Taliban that was 2 years old .... I recall pictures of little Talies
    with bombs strapped to them in their parents arms.

    C'mon, Kay, does the 2 year old really have a choice in whether his parents strap a bomb to him or not? Most 2 year olds are busy mastering potty training and developing a functional vocabulary.

    I don't challenge you on the muslim stuff, usually, but a 2 year old is a baby.
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    C'mon, Kay, does the 2 year old really have a choice in whether his parents strap a bomb to him or not? Most 2 year olds are busy mastering potty training and developing a functional vocabulary.

    I don't challenge you on the muslim stuff, usually, but a 2 year old is a baby.
    Does this make them little more than "clumps of cells?" If so, I'd think liberals would have no problem with a 7.62 abortion.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
    Ayn Rand
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  9. #29  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmPat View Post
    Does this make them little more than "clumps of cells?" If so, I'd think liberals would have no problem with a 7.62 abortion.


    Would you favor abortion for the Muslims only?
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  10. #30  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    How many civilians have died in Afghanistan and Iraq as a direct or indirect result of military engagements since 2001 and 2003 respectively?
    As a direct result? Very few. We take great pains to restrict civilian casualties, and often expose ourselves to risk in order to protect them. Indirectly? That's problematical, because if you buy into the antiwar rhetoric (and we know that you do), then any casualty is a result of our being there, rather than enemy action. If a terrorist straps a bomb on and walks into a crowd of children in order to kill the American who is giving out school supplies, the antiwar activist blames the American for the deaths of the children.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei View Post
    Does this also apply in our wars with Japan and Vietnam?
    We always try to avoid civilian casualties, and when they occur as a result of deliberate actions, we prosecute our own people for war crimes. *Our enemies not only do not prosecute their own personnel for war crimes, they reward them. The vast majority of civilian casualties in Vietnam were the result of deliberate acts by the NVA and Viet Cong, both of which targeted civilian leaders as a matter of policy in order to undermine the government of South Vietnam. The mass murder of public employees and professionals in Hue City by the NVA during the Tet Offensive is a well-documented example of this. During WWII, the Japanese and Germans indulged in total warfare and deliberately targeted civilians. The bombing of cities by the Luftwaffe was meant to jam road networks and prevent rapid maneuvers against their forces. The Japanese record regarding civilian deaths rivals the Germans for sheer brutality and sadism, although they lacked the technical sophistication that the Germans brought to mass murder. Both nations also made it a point to put munitions plants and other critical war infrastructure in civilian areas, which maximized civilian casualties. That's not to say that were were incapable of brutality, but war is a brutal business, and our victories meant that the brutality was ended, while if the Germans or Japanese were to win, it would have been perpetuated, as it was when the North won the Vietnam War. Remember that more Vietnamese died in the first two years after the war ended than did during the entire war.
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    C'mon, Kay, does the 2 year old really have a choice in whether his parents strap a bomb to him or not? Most 2 year olds are busy mastering potty training and developing a functional vocabulary.

    I don't challenge you on the muslim stuff, usually, but a 2 year old is a baby.
    The 2-year-old that has been weaponized is innocent, but that doesn't change the fact that his/her parents turned the child into a munition. People who do that deserve their own circle in Hell.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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