Trayvon Martin: Debunking thread

[Elspeth]

Let me add two points.

One, Zimmerman had a concealed carry license and was legally allowed to take his gun along with him on his patrol.

Absolutely. I put in the first post that Zimmerman had a legal concealed carry permit.

Two, the first photo I saw of Trayvon showed a smiling, baby faced ""innocent"". In the second photo I saw he looked like an angry older individual, and nowhere near an innocent one. So yes, there is a LOT more to this incident that has yet to come out.

This is part of the agitprop. The pictures you are seeing over and over on TV are of a younger Trayvon. In most of them he is shorter than his mother, and not his full height of 6'3''. Those pictures must be quite old.

If you look carefully at the football photo (full shot) which was taken when he was 14 according to the Montreal Gazette you can begin to see how tall Trayvon really was, even at that time. He is now 3 years older and 6'3''. And, as you said, as he got older, that "baby face" Mr. Crump (the attorney) mentions all the time had begun to disappear.

The pictures, of course, are to make Zimmerman's statement that he was "afraid for his life" look absurd. This would undercut the legality of his action and make him vulnerable to prosecution. The Martin family must be fought for this reason alone.

For all we know, Trayvon could have already been involved in nefarious dealings ....and may indeed have been casing the area. That would be the logical assumption to be made by Zimmerman when the kid didn't appear to be going straight home from the store....but looking and lurking about.

Or he simply could have been lost. All the houses in that subdivision look exactly alike. I could see myself getting lost in there.

Of course, considering his father's lack of worry (Tracy Martin didn't contact the police until the next morning) Trayvon may simply have been hanging out outside and maybe his parents were accustomed to him being out at night with no set time for return.

If I were George Zimmerman. though, whose neighborhood had been robbed so many times, I would definitely think that Trayvon could be casing the neighborhood.

Time will tell. Thanks for this informative thread, by the way.

You're welcome. I wish we could get this to someone out there. The radio hosts are repeating the same crap as the mainstream media and no one is asking the hard questions.

[Elspeth]

#19. But it was a COVER UP!!!! The racist bastard asshole Sanford Police racist crackers PROTECTED George Zimmerman!!!!

Protected how?

By not giving that murdering cracker a drug and alcohol test!!!! Remember that guy on ABC said Zimmerman sounded DRUNK!!!111

OK, kiddies.

First of all, within minutes of the police arrival, Zimmerman is handed over to a paramedic who works for Sanford Fire Department. Check the police report. The paramedic dealt with his wounds and administered first aid. Now we do not have the paramedic's report and we do not know if the paramedics did any kind of assessment, and that would be interesting to know. (Homework kiddies!)

Second, the police had gotten up close and personal with Zimmerman from the minute they found him over the dead body. Certainly if they had smelled alcohol on his breath or recognized any symptoms of drunkenness, they would have administered such a test. The cop certainly had a breathalyzer in the car. What that tells me is that they saw no need to examine Zimmerman. Nor (as far as we know) did the paramedic.

Third, the so-called expert on ABC news made his judgments based on "slurred speech." But there's a hitch with that. Even if the sound quality on the 911 recording is good enough to pick that up, pronunciation issues (which is what "slurred" refers to) can easily be the result of language transfer. In other words, boys and girls, George Zimmerman grew up Spanish-speaking. While English and Spanish share a similar alphabet, the same sounds can be quite different in each language. Obstruent consonants (p, t, k, b, d, g) are not aspirated the way they are in English. That means these Spanish consonants SOUND SOFTER, even "slurred" when applied to English. In addition, r's and l's (big slurring candidates) are very different in Spanish and take place at different points of articulation. Also, syllable structure is very different.

So, before we jump to conclusions, we need to put on our "multicultural" hats and understand that differences in pronunciation may come from George's native language. I think a trained phonologist should examine the tape before a monolingual cop is brought in.


Finally, there is nothing in the law that says you can't defend yourself if you've had a beer or two. Drunk would be a different story, of course, and if Zimmerman did not appear visibly drunk to anyone at the scene.


But, but, they've been interpreting witnesses STATEMENTS!!! They've been rewriting testimony!!!!!!!1111

The one person who gave a specific example of "tampering" was Mary Cutcher. And all she said is that she told the police that Trayvon was screaming, and the police told her that it was Zimmerman who screamed.

Now, first, I'd like to see her actual statement to the police. Did they write down her contention that Trayvon was screaming? Or did they write down that she heard Zimmerman scream? If the latter is the case, then that would definitely be a point in your favor.

But, so far, we don't have the written witness statement of Mary Cutcher. We just have her word. And considering that she calls the 6'3'' Trayvon "a little boy" I'm not so sure I trust her observations or her interpretations of reality. Show me that the police changed her written statement and we'll talk. Otherwise, it's just a "he said/she said."

[Elspeth]

20. The right wing and the NRA are throwing George Zimmerman overboard to protect Stand Your Ground laws!!!!

Actually, I agree with this one. And it's a foolish thing for them to do in the long run. However, in the short run, they are doing damage control: the law is far more important than the individual, sadly.

The truth is that if Zimmerman felt in fear for his life (and there's good reason to think he did) he had the right to shoot according to the law in Florida.

• That right does not go away if you happen to be Neighborhood Watch.
• That right does not go away if you witness someone with bad behavior and try to lead the cops to them.
• That right does not go away if you are at first the pursuer but that situation changes and you become the pursued. The law recognizes that a situation can change.

The gun rights public relations machine (unlike the rank and file gun owners) has to protect its image in the press against a media onslaught of agitprop, unrestrained pathos, and misrepresentation. When the opponents of your law accuse you of responsibility for the "murder" of a "little boy" (who is 6'3'') who was a model student (even though he was suspended for a week) and whose parents are raising him right (even though they didn't bother to look for him or call the police until the next morning), then you've got to do something to counter that accusation.

[Elspeth]

Speaking of Trayvon photos, this one is said (by a DUmmie) to be more recent:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002455579

Not sure how old he is here or who is next to him. He does look more like a man than a boy here. That may be why the current pics are rare right now.

If anyone finds one that is truly 17, please post it.

[Elspeth]

And speaking of photos...


Who's this good looking young Latin man?




George Zimmerman...He is shown here in his high school photo. (Photo: Associated Press)

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/03...sas-74026.html


So here is George, around the same age as Trayvon (above).

No wonder they're messing with the photos. I'll bet Mr. Zimmerman still looks great in a tux at 28.

[Elspeth]

#21. (More debunking so soon?) Is it true that Trayvon's body was in the morgue for 3 days??!!!

This one comes courtesy of a DUmmy who doesn't even watch Weird Al Sharpton, like I do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002458488#post25

I could refer you to the right place on the thread, but I'll be nice.

Al Sharpton's Politics Nation (MSNBC) March 21

Here is the story of finding out about Trayvon from the police.

Rev. Al: Why did it take the police so long to contact you? Do you know?

Mr. Martin: Uh, actually, I contacted the police, myself.

Rev. Al: So they never made the contact.

Mr. Martin: I did the initial contact. I called the, uh,--Trayvon was missing, I called Missing Persons, filed a Missing Persons report. Um, at that time they sent officers out. They dispatched--they told me they were going to dispatch a couple of--dispatch a unit to the residence. They called back about ten minutes later and asked me what he had been last seen wearing. And I gave a description of him.

Um, I told them what he had on.

Rev. Al: Now how long had he been missing when this was going on?

Mr. Martin: Uh, since he had left the--since he left the house, which had been over 12 hours, 12 or 13 hours.

Rev. Al: OK, and then what happened?

Mr. Martin: Uh, three units pulled up. There was a marked car, an unmarked car, and a service aid car, which the service aid car, was a chaplain in it. Um, I didn't know it because he just had on a regular uniform.

Uh, the first officer that approached, I identified myself, told him I was filing a Missing Person's report. The second officer approached. Um, he introduced himself as a major crimes investigator. At that time it didn't register to me. He asked me to describe my son. I described him to him. He told me give him a second. He walked to his vehicle, got a folder, came back, asked can we go in the house. We went in the house, uh, he asked me to sit down. I sat down. He pulled out a picture of my son on the ground dead. Asked me was that my son. I confirmed that it was....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755884/#46814638

And even more The Right Reverend Weird Al Sharpton:

Rev. Al: Now Attorney Crump, why couldn't--if Trayvon had a cell phone--why couldn't they have looked at the cell phone and traced the numbers and called somebody?

Mr. Crump: Well, it's one of the things you would have asked yourself. The police have subpoena power--they could have subpoenaed those records and stuff to find out who he was....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755884/#46814638

So boys and girls, what have we learned?

1. Trayvon was only "in the morgue" for 12 hours or less.

2. The police could not search his phone without a subpoena (and try finding a judge on a Sunday night in a small town.) Most likely they would have had the subpoena the next day.

3. Trayvon's father waited 12-13 hours after Trayvon left the house before contacting the police. Trayvon had been missing roughly 11-12 hours by then.



So you see, law enforcement did its job. Did Trayvon's dad do his? If he wanted to see his son before 12 hours after his death, he could have contacted the police at, say, 9 or 10 or 11 on Sunday night when his kid didn't come home.

What's with that, anyway?

I remember "disappearing" one night before sunset. I had a fight with my folks and went to a friend's house a mile and a half away. Finally, around 10 pm, I felt sorry for my folks and called them, only to find the police at the house. See, I had been missing for 5 hours and I was a teenager.

So why didn't Trayvon's father call the police at say, 11 pm, when his kid was missing for at least 4 or 5 hours?

Hmm......

Oh, and by the way, notice how nice the cops were, with their three cars and their chaplain and all. Sounds like police brutality to me.

[Elspeth]

#21. Why can't you just let us grieve??!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002459258

Who's preventing you, sport?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002459258

All this concern trolling, pointing out how Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial, how we should not convict him before all the evidence is in, how he won't get justice because we are all upset and venting.

"Concern trolling"? You're being asked to remember that Zimmerman is a person with rights and that is "concern trolling"?

Yeah, kiddo, I worry that George Zimmerman won't get justice because you are all venting--DU, the media, the country. It's not the fact that you are wailing in sorrow. It's that you are venting with hate, violence, anger, character assassination, and a white hot rage. Right now, I wouldn't trust you to give justice to anyone. You're out of control.

The agitprop that has taken over the country in the past few days is astounding. Even Fox News is joining you. Fox! There's a coup--you're all joined in hatred. You don't think Fox hates Zimmerman for existing and for messing up the perception of the Second Amendment?

So yeah, I am worried because you are out of control.

Tell you what - when people start talking about grabbing a pitchfork and a torch and going to hunt down Zimmerman, then your concern trolling will be justified.

Have you read yourselves? Have you read every anti-White screed you have written this week? (Even though Zimmerman is Hispanic?) You do understand that at least one hate group has said they will kill Zimmerman. And how soon is it before all the hoodie-wearing people at marches go from "no justice, no peace" to "kill Zimmerman"?

Trust me, with the level of emotion you are carrying, the level of rage and hate you are carrying, it won't be long before someone loses it. All that emotion squeezes out somewhere.

Be very careful with your grief. And I never thought I'd ever say this, but listen to Nadin on this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002458890

She's trying to keep you sane.

[NJCardFan]

I worry that George Zimmerman won't get justice because you are all venting--DU, the media, the country.

You can throw Obama in there now:

"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o...144936867.html

[NJCardFan]

And speaking of photos...


Who's this good looking young Latin man?




George Zimmerman...He is shown here in his high school photo. (Photo: Associated Press)

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/03...sas-74026.html


So here is George, around the same age as Trayvon (above).

No wonder they're messing with the photos. I'll bet Mr. Zimmerman still looks great in a tux at 28.

But he is half white and that's the half they're going after. See, if you're mixed, the half of you that is attacked is very subjective.

[Elspeth]

You can throw Obama in there now:

Like I said, it's an election year.

Remember, African American activists have not been too happy with Obama. Cornell West has been very critical of him. There is a general feeling that Obama has not done much for the black community. Trayvon Martin's case gives Obama the chance to be the big hero to the African American voters. (You just know that evil Republicans would never have investigaged the case.) The message is, "Only the Democrats can save you!"

Add that to the new voter ID laws, which will cut down on repeat voting, and voting by felons and illegal immigrants, and you have a pressing need to get every eligible black voter to the polls. Getting every eligible voter of any group to the polls is next to impossible unless you have something pushing them. In 2008, it was the prospect of the first black President. For this election, they needed a big, emotional push and Trayvon Martin's case is it.

Watch for this case to be flogged like a dead horse all year and watch for the SuperPacs to push youthful images of Trayvon (not his 17-year-old photos) in commercials on BET.

And watch for Zimmerman to be destroyed for the sake of an Obama victory in November.