Thread: WTF? Herbert Hoover 2.0?

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  1. #11  
    Power CUer patriot45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    A financial institution goes under over the weekend that’s been in existence since the Civil War and "our fundamentals are still sound?" And all the sudden the fundamentals McCain was speaking of are "the American workers and entrepreneurs?" And to criticise that is to knock the American people? WTF?
    Well, lets see what are the fundamentals of our economic system?

    10 here

    I'm not an economist, so I don't pretend to know the ins and outs, but these fundamentals sound reasonable.




    1)The market economy is the most efficient of all economic systems

    2) Free trade helps economic development.

    3) Good institutions help development.

    4) The best measure of a good economy is its growth.

    5) Creative destruction is the engine of economic growth.

    6) Monetary stability, too, is necessary for growth; inflation is always harmful.

    7)Unemployment among unskilled workers is largely determined by how much labor costs.

    8) While the welfare state is necessary in some form, it isn’t always effective

    9) The creation of complex financial markets has brought about economic progress

    10) Competition is usually desirable

    : “Grow your own dope. Plant a liberal.”
    ” Obummercare, 20 percent of the time it works everytime.
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  2. #12  
    Eyelids
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    Exactly. Lids, at least you admit what he's going to do. We disagree about nearly everything but at least you don't try to hide your agenda like most liberals do under the guise of ''it's all for the children" or "conservatives hate, we love".

    But what I'll never understand is why people continue to believe in Socialism. How can you be willing to just become a mindless zombie of the State?
    Oh no the dreaded "S" word, nothing drums up fear amongst Americans like a little Red Scare now and then (although brown people from the desert are making a good run). What we have in America now is a substantial amount of (usually fairly intelligent) people clinging desperately to a wounded and unsustainable system. Their justification for a complete market economy is freedom by the consumer to chose which product is best, and that by some quasi-Darwinian process the best products and firms will reap profits and inferior's will fade. It looks absolutely fantastic on paper and in a young economy I'm sure it works great, but it's completely unsustainable.

    America has turned into the lucky sperm club, by happenstance of birth people are given much more opportunity than their less privileged counterparts. Money and power just coalesces into a smaller and smaller absolute elite class of people who haven't done anywhere near enough work to justify it. People just let their investments work for them, not doing any real work or production themselves and instead letting their money do all of it.

    I say you tax those people to kingdom fucking come, reinvest the money in social programs provided at no expense to all citizens. When relieved of the burden of having to pay for essential things like healthcare (and at no increase to taxes) the middle class booms. The rise of a broader consumer base opens the door for more goods to purchased, which presents all the opportunity in the world for any businessperson.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I say you tax those people to kingdom fucking come, reinvest the money in social programs provided at no expense to all citizens. When relieved of the burden of having to pay for essential things like healthcare (and at no increase to taxes) the middle class booms. The rise of a broader consumer base opens the door for more goods to purchased, which presents all the opportunity in the world for any businessperson.
    You really think there are not enough goods being purchased now? Do you think that is the root of the current economic crisis?

    On a serious, non sarcastic note. Where did you come by these ideas? I was wondering if they came from classes you are taking in college. Just out of curiosity.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I say you tax those people to kingdom fucking come, reinvest the money in social programs provided at no expense to all citizens.

    At no expense? You just described how the expense would be paid. You have a major disconnect going here. So do the people at the top of your party. Please describe, for example, exactly whom the AMT affects.
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    I say you tax those people to kingdom fucking come, reinvest the money in social programs provided at no expense to all citizens. When relieved of the burden of having to pay for essential things like healthcare (and at no increase to taxes) the middle class booms. The rise of a broader consumer base opens the door for more goods to purchased, which presents all the opportunity in the world for any businessperson.
    I’m sorry - I’m not clear on the math here. I’m a fairly well off small business owner - how is taxing me to "kingdom fucking come" going to allow me to add new employees or, at worst, maintain my current staff and their benefits? Please educate me on how that would come to pass.

    If I'm not mistaken, I think the 70 some-odd year experiment of that kind of society failed miserably under Mr. Reagan’s watch. I read that in a book somewhere. Again, please feel free to correct my perspective if you can actually educate me on this 'plan for change.' Right now I think my vote might be "no," but I’m fairly open-minded.
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Again, please feel free to correct my perspective if you can actually educate me on this 'plan for change.'
    Weren't you paying attention? It's to "tax you to kingdom fucking come". How can you not get behind that? :D
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  7. #17  
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    Stocks down 235 so far this morning, even after AIG bailout. Ungrateful bastards. :p
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Stocks down 235 so far this morning, even after AIG bailout. Ungrateful bastards. :p
    With the terms of the loan, it's still questionable whether AIG will survive. It will certainly have to sell off (probably at bargain prices) a number of its business units. I haven't looked, but I suspect AIG, a DJIA stock, is off sharply despite the loan. I also heard that other financial stocks were off, despite reasonable earning reports. For those of you who think this doesn't matter, financial stocks comprise around 15% of a typical 401k! :eek:
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyelids View Post
    America has turned into the lucky sperm club, by happenstance of birth people are given much more opportunity than their less privileged counterparts. Money and power just coalesces into a smaller and smaller absolute elite class of people who haven't done anywhere near enough work to justify it.
    The highlighted portion shows your exact level of idiocy, and the indoctrination of the liberal college "education" I'm sure you're getting. The arguement of the "elites" simply being born into prosperity has been regurgitated by every single advocate of Class Warfare since Marx & Engels. I could site hundreds of different exact experiences that prove the falseness of your claims, but I'll focus on one you probably weren't privy to in your Utne Reader education system which destroys your "class through bloodline" arguement, as well as a possible arguement of the "racist" arguement when it comes to black & white educations.

    In 1899 there were 4 academic public high schools in Washington D.C.- one black, 3 white. In standardized tests that year, students in the all black high school averaged higher scores then students in 2 out of 3 white schools. It would be "utopian" to expect inner city schools to outperform the "middle class" counterpart schools today. Yet what happened in 1899 was no fluke. The same school repeatedly equaled or exceeded national averages on standardized tests in the 1930s, 40s and early 50s. That school was Dunbar High School, taught by a highly educated faculty who's early Principal was the first black woman to receive a college degree in U.S. history---in 1862.

    At a time during which blacks in the antebellum South were still slaves, this woman was able to meet the strict academic requirements of Oberlin College, requesting Latin, Greek and Mathematics classes that were typically reserved to men, known as "The Gentlemen's Course".

    Are examples such as this, in the era of Slavery the product of the "happenstance" of birth where people are "given" more opportunity then their "less privledged" counterparts? How about the fact that students of Dunbar High School, DESPITE the fact that it was located in one of the poorest ghettos in D.C. where 3/4's of its students qualified for the reduced lunch price program due to their parents living under the national U.S. poverty line were among the highest percentiles of standardized test takes, admittants to college and producers of black Doctorate & Masters Degree holders then larger schools with more "Middle Class" children?

    Using class to explain your status as a "victim" in society is a tactic of the weak and unmotivated as a way to explain away their failures and laziness through a perceived system of "Injustice".

    Finally, taxation as you propose generates NO new income...where do you expect to get the money for your social programs when the top 10% of earners in America pay 90% of the tax burden already? Do you even know the economic reasons for the Great Depression? The "robber barrons" were taxed to the the tune of 90% of their yearly income in some cases, which thinned profitability margins, reduced jobs and left millions unemployed. Meanwhile, FDR used the AAA to create false scarcity in agricultural resources by slaughtering 3 million hogs and discarding the meat, allowed crops to literally die in the fields and paid white farmers NOT to work their land. All to get public opinion on the side of giving up individual freedoms in favor of a Government handout.....

    Learn your history, provide a better arguement then simply vomiting forth portions of "The Communist Manifesto" and "Rules for Radicals". A college educated man should ask more of himself then this.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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