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  1. #31  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    the ACLU Nazi's have done well helping their cause by removing God from the public eye. course they had to take it to court vs Gov and won. if your a taxpaper you footed the bill the Gov had to pay out.

    I thought freedom of religion was one of things I and millions help fight and die for. guess not huh???
    Thing is most of the outrage about God being removed is unjustified.

    God was not removed from the public schools. People can still pray on their own and in groups. The law still allows for religious clothing. If a school doesn't allow it, they can be taken to court.

    You can still pray at work. Trust me, I do so every day with my job. I get told off for a living.

    You can pray when you go out to eat at a restaurant.

    You can pray in the hospital. They even have a chapel.

    You can pray in court whether the ten commandments is up or not.

    There may not be a prayer before a football game, but you can still pray before it and ask others to join you.

    Where exactly was God removed?
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  2. #32  
    Senior Member namvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Thing is most of the outrage about God being removed is unjustified.

    God was not removed from the public schools. People can still pray on their own and in groups. The law still allows for religious clothing. If a school doesn't allow it, they can be taken to court.

    You can still pray at work. Trust me, I do so every day with my job. I get told off for a living.

    You can pray when you go out to eat at a restaurant.

    You can pray in the hospital. They even have a chapel.

    You can pray in court whether the ten commandments is up or not.

    There may not be a prayer before a football game, but you can still pray before it and ask others to join you.

    Where exactly was God removed?
    Where exactly was God removed?
    your thinking only of yourself but what about the country ??? these are just examples of thousands I found using a search engine.

    Judges Ban Pledge of Allegiance From Schools, Citing 'Under God'
    link


    God Is an Imaginary Friend’: Atheist Billboard Ignites Controversy in Colorado
    link

    Ten Commandments monument moved
    link

    Feds order Christian signs and symbols removed from local bank
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/31210

    the brainwashing and indoctrination of our kids in US schools and at home is NO different than Nazi indoctrination of kids in Germany. indentical

    clearly this constitutes child abuse





    this is NOT the country I swore to protect and defend but instead the kind i was trained to destroy and turn into ashe's
    Last edited by namvet; 04-04-2012 at 10:07 AM.
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  3. #33  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    Judges Ban Pledge of Allegiance From Schools, Citing 'Under God'
    link
    There's no way that will ever stick. For starters, the "under God" part can be taken out or students can be given the choice not to say the pledge or they can be given the choice not to say the "under God" part. There's no legal reasonsing for this decision, and I wouldn't expect it to last long before being overturned.


    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    God Is an Imaginary Friend’: Atheist Billboard Ignites Controversy in Colorado
    link
    So? It has nothing to do with our freedom. Meanwhile, I've seen billboards about God. One was my favorites was in or near Winston-Salem years ago. It said "Don't make me come down there." lol. The way this country's going, I sort of wish he would. Anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    Ten Commandments monument moved
    link
    It's a government building paid for with the taxpayer money. Some of those taxpayers are atheists.

    Is there a rule saying that lawyers, witnesses, accused people, and others can't pray on their own or in a group before a hearing? No. There's still freedom of religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    Feds order Christian signs and symbols removed from local bank
    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/31210
    That very well might not stick either. Now, the case can be made that since government sometimes suport banks (by doing stuff such as bailing out them out so they can easily sell somebody's home for 1K), that the bank is the government's bitch. Sorry to put it that way, but it's sort of true sometimes.

    The truth is some places have gone too far, and there have been cases where it was taken to court and declared unconstitutional to get in the way of anybody's freedom of religion. I can even looked up ACLU cases where they took a Christian's case if you want. It's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by namvet View Post
    the brainwashing and indoctrination of our kids in US schools and at home is NO different than Nazi indoctrination of kids in Germany. indentical

    clearly this constitutes child abuse





    this is NOT the country I swore to protect and defend but instead the kind i was trained to destroy and turn into ashe's
    It's inappropriate for schools to be pushing politics. The teacher involved and the principal should be fired.

    That said, this is NOT Germany during the Nazi time period. Those kids were encouraged to go home, spy on their parents, and turn them in over stupid crap. They were taught to hate Jews and other people who were different. They were taught to pretty much worship Hitler instead of God. Not the same at all. You remind me of the liberals during the Bush years saying Bush was Hitler. Saying you'd like to turn the United States into ashes is disgusting. If you don't like America, then you need to leave America. If you want a theocracy, then you can move to Iran.

    And I want to say ahead of time how disgusted I am at conservatives here who would condemn a liberal on DU for saying they want the country destroyed, but who probably won't say a word to Namvet. It's disgusting and hypocritical.

    The truth is the United States of America is still one of the best countries in the world. So your side isn't in charge right now? Well Boo-fucking-hoo. Get over it and yourself. This is not Nazi Germany. It's not Communist Soviet Union. This is still one of the most free countries in the entire world. There are Christians in other parts of the world who really are being persecuted. Their lives are in danger. And people here are going to complain about the ten commandments in front of the court house? If any of you all think there's a better country out there, then move to it and tell us about it. You could also work to improve the one you have instead of condemning it for not being on your side right now.

    Oh no, you all won't hear me apologizing either. This is wrong. And yes, I'd have the same reaction if a Republican was the President right now. The world does not come to an end because your side doesn't win.
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  4. #34  
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jai2cAGcrUA

    What's really happening is schools just aren't talking about Christianity and Judiasm...but they are pushing a tolerance for Islam.
    IF you don't already know her, Bridgette Gabriel, a lebanese who knows Islam and it's teachings all too well.
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  5. #35  
    All the indoctrination stuff is exactly why my kids will never see the inside of a public school. Oh, that and the fact that the public school system sucks balls at teaching even the most elementary subjects. Seriously, back when I was in high school (a long while back, now), by law the building couldn't have been used as a prison, because there weren't enough windows. I won't even go into teacher's unions and whatnot.
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  6. #36  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jai2cAGcrUA

    What's really happening is schools just aren't talking about Christianity and Judiasm...but they are pushing a tolerance for Islam.
    IF you don't already know her, Bridgette Gabriel, a lebanese who knows Islam and it's teachings all too well.

    Can't watch the youtube right now, but I'll say this. There's nothing wrong with teaching tolerance for Islam. That doesn't mean have Sharia laws in the schools, but it does mean not being mean to kids because they're Muslim. If the kids think the Muslim kid in the classroom is out to blow up the school, then of course they'll target that Muslim kid.

    Christianity and Judaism has been talked about in the schools. One day, I did a Social Studies lesson as a sub about the history of Judaism. Of course, the next chapter was Christianity followed by Islam, but that wasn't what I was instructed to teach that day. When I taught the part about Judaism, there was a Jewish student in the room who was so excited. He felt the chapter in the book did a disservice to Judaism because it didn't go into enough detail. He almost took over my class and went around the classroom helping students on the assignment that was related.

    If you look into some of the high school literature books, you'll find chapters from the book of Genesis. It's considered great literature.
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  7. #37  
    Senior Member namvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Can't watch the youtube right now, but I'll say this. There's nothing wrong with teaching tolerance for Islam. That doesn't mean have Sharia laws in the schools, but it does mean not being mean to kids because they're Muslim. If the kids think the Muslim kid in the classroom is out to blow up the school, then of course they'll target that Muslim kid.

    Christianity and Judaism has been talked about in the schools. One day, I did a Social Studies lesson as a sub about the history of Judaism. Of course, the next chapter was Christianity followed by Islam, but that wasn't what I was instructed to teach that day. When I taught the part about Judaism, there was a Jewish student in the room who was so excited. He felt the chapter in the book did a disservice to Judaism because it didn't go into enough detail. He almost took over my class and went around the classroom helping students on the assignment that was related.

    If you look into some of the high school literature books, you'll find chapters from the book of Genesis. It's considered great literature.
    have to admit your pretty good with the double talk.

    tell me or better yet prove to me Islam is tolerant of western Christianity. and if so why do they call us "infidels"

    define "infidel"

    and cudo's to the Jew kid, no such thing as a bad student. only a bad teacher
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  8. #38  
    Senior Member namvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    There's no way that will ever stick. For starters, the "under God" part can be taken out or students can be given the choice not to say the pledge or they can be given the choice not to say the "under God" part. There's no legal reasonsing for this decision, and I wouldn't expect it to last long before being overturned.




    So? It has nothing to do with our freedom. Meanwhile, I've seen billboards about God. One was my favorites was in or near Winston-Salem years ago. It said "Don't make me come down there." lol. The way this country's going, I sort of wish he would. Anyway...



    It's a government building paid for with the taxpayer money. Some of those taxpayers are atheists.

    Is there a rule saying that lawyers, witnesses, accused people, and others can't pray on their own or in a group before a hearing? No. There's still freedom of religion.



    That very well might not stick either. Now, the case can be made that since government sometimes suport banks (by doing stuff such as bailing out them out so they can easily sell somebody's home for 1K), that the bank is the government's bitch. Sorry to put it that way, but it's sort of true sometimes.

    The truth is some places have gone too far, and there have been cases where it was taken to court and declared unconstitutional to get in the way of anybody's freedom of religion. I can even looked up ACLU cases where they took a Christian's case if you want. It's there.



    It's inappropriate for schools to be pushing politics. The teacher involved and the principal should be fired.

    That said, this is NOT Germany during the Nazi time period. Those kids were encouraged to go home, spy on their parents, and turn them in over stupid crap. They were taught to hate Jews and other people who were different. They were taught to pretty much worship Hitler instead of God. Not the same at all. You remind me of the liberals during the Bush years saying Bush was Hitler. Saying you'd like to turn the United States into ashes is disgusting. If you don't like America, then you need to leave America. If you want a theocracy, then you can move to Iran.

    And I want to say ahead of time how disgusted I am at conservatives here who would condemn a liberal on DU for saying they want the country destroyed, but who probably won't say a word to Namvet. It's disgusting and hypocritical.

    The truth is the United States of America is still one of the best countries in the world. So your side isn't in charge right now? Well Boo-fucking-hoo. Get over it and yourself. This is not Nazi Germany. It's not Communist Soviet Union. This is still one of the most free countries in the entire world. There are Christians in other parts of the world who really are being persecuted. Their lives are in danger. And people here are going to complain about the ten commandments in front of the court house? If any of you all think there's a better country out there, then move to it and tell us about it. You could also work to improve the one you have instead of condemning it for not being on your side right now.

    Oh no, you all won't hear me apologizing either. This is wrong. And yes, I'd have the same reaction if a Republican was the President right now. The world does not come to an end because your side doesn't win.
    There's no way that will ever stick. For starters, the "under God" part can be taken out or students can be given the choice not to say the pledge or they can be given the choice not to say the "under God" part. There's no legal reasonsing for this decision, and I wouldn't expect it to last long before being overturned.
    double talk. you admit its wrong but expect it to be overturned. let us know when ok??

    So? It has nothing to do with our freedom. Meanwhile, I've seen billboards about God. One was my favorites was in or near Winston-Salem years ago. It said "Don't make me come down there." lol. The way this country's going, I sort of wish he would. Anyway...
    so things are really that bad huh???

    It's a government building paid for with the taxpayer money. Some of those taxpayers are atheists.

    Is there a rule saying that lawyers, witnesses, accused people, and others can't pray on their own or in a group before a hearing? No. There's still freedom of religion.
    in the home yes. im talking about public. BTY terrorists pray for our destruction in their homes and in public

    That very well might not stick either. Now, the case can be made that since government sometimes suport banks (by doing stuff such as bailing out them out so they can easily sell somebody's home for 1K), that the bank is the government's bitch. Sorry to put it that way, but it's sort of true sometimes.

    The truth is some places have gone too far, and there have been cases where it was taken to court and declared unconstitutional to get in the way of anybody's freedom of religion. I can even looked up ACLU cases where they took a Christian's case if you want. It's there.
    sometimes. if and but and maybe. make up your god damned mind. is it or isn't it. its a proven fact the democraps were reponsible for the housing meltdown.
    now what "places" are you referring to??? also the ACLU is stricly a profit business. they don't give a rats ass about your religion or problems. they're there to make a buck. and GOV cases are what fill their bank accounts. at our expense.

    That said, this is NOT Germany during the Nazi time period. Those kids were encouraged to go home, spy on their parents, and turn them in over stupid crap. They were taught to hate Jews and other people who were different. They were taught to pretty much worship Hitler instead of God. Not the same at all. You remind me of the liberals during the Bush years saying Bush was Hitler. Saying you'd like to turn the United States into ashes is disgusting. If you don't like America, then you need to leave America. If you want a theocracy, then you can move to Iran.

    And I want to say ahead of time how disgusted I am at conservatives here who would condemn a liberal on DU for saying they want the country destroyed, but who probably won't say a word to Namvet. It's disgusting and hypocritical.

    The truth is the United States of America is still one of the best countries in the world. So your side isn't in charge right now? Well Boo-fucking-hoo. Get over it and yourself. This is not Nazi Germany. It's not Communist Soviet Union. This is still one of the most free countries in the entire world. There are Christians in other parts of the world who really are being persecuted. Their lives are in danger. And people here are going to complain about the ten commandments in front of the court house? If any of you all think there's a better country out there, then move to it and tell us about it. You could also work to improve the one you have instead of condemning it for not being on your side right now.

    Oh no, you all won't hear me apologizing either. This is wrong. And yes, I'd have the same reaction if a Republican was the President right now. The world does not come to an end because your side doesn't win
    LMFAO !!! you should quit your job and apply with the liberal MSM.
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Can't watch the youtube right now, but I'll say this. There's nothing wrong with teaching tolerance for Islam. That doesn't mean have Sharia laws in the schools, but it does mean not being mean to kids because they're Muslim. If the kids think the Muslim kid in the classroom is out to blow up the school, then of course they'll target that Muslim kid.

    Christianity and Judaism has been talked about in the schools. One day, I did a Social Studies lesson as a sub about the history of Judaism. Of course, the next chapter was Christianity followed by Islam, but that wasn't what I was instructed to teach that day. When I taught the part about Judaism, there was a Jewish student in the room who was so excited. He felt the chapter in the book did a disservice to Judaism because it didn't go into enough detail. He almost took over my class and went around the classroom helping students on the assignment that was related.

    If you look into some of the high school literature books, you'll find chapters from the book of Genesis. It's considered great literature.
    I actually didn't write what I meant...it's more than a tolerance of Islam....watch the clip when you get a chance.
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  10. #40  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    So Namvet, you want to know where the concept of God gets defended despite the cases you cited. Well, let's look at the ten commandments court case.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-513506.html

    A day after he shocked the nation by declaring the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional, a federal appeals court judge put his ruling on hold Thursday.

    Circuit Judge Alfred T. Goodwin, who wrote the 2-1 opinion that said the phrase "under God" violates the separation of church and state, stayed his ruling until other members of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decide whether to change course.

    The appeals court can rehear the case with the same three judges, or an 11-judge panel.
    Obviously, this case meant nothing because people still want to have it pulled from schools.

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient...w=1024&bih=677

    Perhaps they want the pledge pulled because it's still there. I know it's still in the various schools I've worked in (including the "under God" part).

    BTW, I loved how in your article, it said the judge got threats. Why no condemnation of that? It's not like it was Christian to do.

    I'd like to know the name of the schools that were pushing the pro-Obama politics so I could find updates on them.

    Now, here's some information on some court cases.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/sch_clot2.htm

    1999-AUG; Mississipi: A 15 year old Jewish student, Ryan Green, was not allowed to wear a Star of David necklace at his Biloxi MS high school. This is a six-pointed star which is the universal symbol of Judaism. Ryan's father is Jewish and his mother is Christian. He was brought up in both faiths. During the summer holidays, his grandmother talked to him about his Jewish heritage and gave him a Star of David to wear. He wore it to school, but was told to wear it inside his shirt for his own good. The next day, a teacher told him to take it off. The Harrison County school board voted unanimously on AUG-16 to back the teacher. They will retain their policy that forbids students from wearing anything that could be considered a gang symbol. The board discussed forbidding crosses and crucifixes, but decided to continue to allow Christian children to freely wear them. Tom Green, Ryan's father told the school board: "I don't appreciate calling the Star of David a gang symbol." The American Civil Liberties Union filed a suit in the U.S. District Court in Biloxi, MS on AUG-19. 4
    Personally, I blame the gangs more than anybody else on this. How dare they use religious symbols and bring their war into the schools. That's a rant for another time. Anyway, notice the highlighted part. The Christians got to wear their symbols.

    1999-OCT-18; Alabama: Kandice Smith is in 6th grade at Curry Middle School in Jasper AL. She brought a lawsuit against the Walker County Public School System and her school's principal because she was allegedly told on two occasions to wear a gold cross out of sight inside her shirt. She was represented by the Fundamentalist Christian American Center for Law and Justice. A school district attorney, Russ Richardson, said that the policy's intent was to "keep distractions down" in the schools. The system's policy is that "No neck jewelry of any type is allowed, religious or otherwise." The school carefully regulates the allowable type, color and size of articles of clothing. He expected to "vigorously contest" the lawsuit. He admitted that the clothing policy limits "one medium of religious expression." But he said that students could express themselves religiously "in other ways." The case was settled out of court in early 2000-MAR in favor of Ms. Smith. The settlement agreement requires the school to revise its dress code "to mandate religious accommodations in accordance with the Alabama Religious Freedom Amendment."
    So Smith won. Kids get told they can't wear stuff. Their parents take it to court, and they win. They win.

    Now, if you wish to take up for anybody in the schools, take up for the teachers. They're held to a supposedly higher standard.

    http://www.firstamendmentschools.org....aspx?id=13027

    Other courts have reached similar results in teacher dress code cases. For example, a federal court in Mississippi upheld the discharge of a teacher's aide for refusing to abide by the dress code of the school.4 The aide asserted she had a constitutional right to wear berets to show her African American heritage and her religious beliefs. The school district countered that the berets were "inappropriate attire." Ultimately, the court sided with the school board, finding that the teacher failed to communicate to school district officials that she had a religious basis for her conduct. However, the court noted that the "[d]istrict is required, under the First Amendment and Title VII, to make some accommodation for the practice of religious beliefs when it pursues an end which incidentally burdens religious practices."5
    Despite this statement in the McGlothlin case, other courts have rejected claims that state statutes restricting teachers from wearing religious clothing are unconstitutional. In United States v. Board of Education, for example, the Third Circuit rejected a Title VII6 religious discrimination claim against a school board for prohibiting a Muslim substitute teacher from wearing her religious clothing.7
    Note: Not a Christian, a Muslim.

    Similarly, the Oregon Supreme Court rejected a free exercise challenge -- under the First Amendment and a provision of the state constitution -- to an Oregon statute prohibiting teachers from wearing religious clothing.9 The teacher, who was an adherent to the Sikh religion, argued against the constitutionality of a state law that provided: "No teacher in any public school shall wear any religious dress while engaged in the performance of duties as a teacher."

    The Oregon high court upheld the statute, writing that "the aim of maintaining the religious neutrality of the public schools furthers a constitutional obligation beyond an ordinary policy preference for the legislature."10
    While it was a Muslim fighting for her rights in that case, that rule would apply to Christians too.

    People have the dumb idea that making a teacher wear neutral clothing makes them more or less fair of a teacher when it really doesn't.

    Let's talk about students groups such as the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/fe...rdecision.html

    1993 Court says that school districts cannot deny churches access to school premises after-hours, if the
    district allowed the use of its building to other groups. (Lamb's Chapel et al. v. Center Moriches Union Free
    School District)
    1990 The court rules that the Equal Access Act does not violate the First Amendment. Public
    schools that receive federal funds and maintain a "limited open forum" on school grounds after
    school hours cannot deny "equal access" to student groups based upon "religious, political,
    philosophical, or other content." (Board of Education v. Mergens)
    Our government even gives parents money to assist with sending their kids to a religious school.

    http://www.uscourts.gov/EducationalR...tStudents.aspx

    Zelma v. Simmons-Harris (2002)
    Certain school voucher programs are constitutional.
    The Ohio Pilot Scholarship Program allowed certain Ohio families to receive tuition aid from the state. This would help offset the cost of tuition at private, including parochial (religiously affiliated), schools. The Supreme Court rejected First Amendment challenges to the program and stated that such aid does not violate the Establishment Clause.
    Namvet, we have an awesome country.
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