Thread: Trayvon Martin DEBUNK part II: Multiple suspensions, criminal behavior

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  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    .............. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer .................
    While said unarmed kid was pounding an innocent man's head into mush on the pavement, having already broken said innocent man's nose.
    Notice how you place neighborhood watch in quotation marks. Gee, Noony, why'd ya do that?
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    While said unarmed kid was pounding an innocent man's head into mush on the pavement, having already broken said innocent man's nose.
    Notice how you place neighborhood watch in quotation marks. Gee, Noony, why'd ya do that?

    It has not been established that the kid wasn't acting in self-defense. Mr. Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow Trayvon, and he did anyways.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    It has not been established that the kid wasn't acting in self-defense. Mr. Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow Trayvon, and he did anyways.
    Wow, you libs really like to glean what you want from something don't you. A 9-1-1 operator, or in this case, a non-emergency call number operator is in no way "the police". For the love of frigging Pete stop this idiocy. These operators aren't even law enforcement. THEY ARE FRIGGING OPERATORS, CIVILIANS!!! Before long you people are going to make it so it was the chief of police who personally took Zimmerman's call and begged, no, pleaded him not to follow Martin.
    "Inequality is a false notion propagated by those who are made to feel guilty for what they have by those who are jealous for what they don't"-Former MTV Host Kennedy
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post

    I don't care whether Trayvon was a perfect kid. I don't care if his family is perfect. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer who was told by the police to stop following the kid, and that the original prosecutor took the shooter's word for it that it was self-defense without much of an investigation.
    The foot "pursuit" was 25 seconds long.

    The dispatch officer told Zimmerman "We don't need you to do that", (about 15 seconds in) and after that, there is exactly 10 seconds before Trayvon disappears completely, and George Zimmerman loses complete track of him. He then stops pursuing because he can no longer do so.

    His breathing also begins to calm down at this point, indicating that he is no longer moving quickly. The guy is overweight and easily winded. Before the end of the call, Zimmerman is completely calm in his breathing and has agreed to meet the police officer being sent. He also expresses fear to dispatch that Trayvon may be still in the area

    There is then 1 minute between the end of George Zimmerman's call and the beginning of the stream of 911 calls. In that short time, a serious enough altercation began that neighbors started calling the police. Zimmerman could not see Trayvon and had no idea where he was. A hidden Trayvon could have seen Zimmerman's SUV, by the mailboxes. Which is the more likely pursuer in this scenario?

    Add this to the two witnesses--one a 13-year old black teen--who see Trayvon clearly on top of Zimmerman. One witness identifies the screamer as Zimmerman. An audio analysis is, of course, vital here.

    I keep posting timelines for a reason. The foot PURSUIT you are all up in arms about was 25 seconds at most and occurred during the police call. And Trayvon actually spends a minute approaching Zimmerman's car before the pursuit. One could argue that had Trayvon simply run (instead of approaching Zimmerman's vehicle) he would have been fine. George was overweight; Trayvon was tall, skinny, and in the best shape of his life. He could have easily outrun Zimmerman, gone home and locked the door. He didn't do that.

    Now in terms of his family, I don't like that the dad can't seem to tell a consistent story and that his facts keep changing. I don't like the fact that he left a teenager on suspension for drugs home alone in a house in charge of a younger child (the girlfriend's kid.) I don't like the fact that the dad doesn't contact the police until the next morning and just assumes his kid is with a cousin, whom he also doesn't call. This is just irresponsible parenting.

    I don't like the fact that the fact that family's legal team can't show an honest picture of Trayvon at his current age, and that they keep flashing pictures of when the kid was in middle school. I don't like the fact that they are creating a martyr out of a kid who contributed to the situation by approaching Zimmerman's vehicle. I don't like the fact that they are insistent on tearing the country apart over a situation that is not clear cut, but has a great deal of nuance.

    Now was Zimmerman overzealous? Yes, he was. Would I want to be his neighbor? Probably not.

    But did he hunt Trayvon down like a dog and shoot him in cold blood?

    No.

    Are Trayvon's family and defense team misleading the public?

    Yes.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    A 9-1-1 operator, or in this case, a non-emergency call number operator is in no way "the police". For the love of frigging Pete stop this idiocy. These operators aren't even law enforcement. THEY ARE FRIGGING OPERATORS, CIVILIANS!!! Before long you people are going to make it so it was the chief of police who personally took Zimmerman's call and begged, no, pleaded him not to follow Martin.
    Do you have a citation for this? Because up here in Washington state, the non-emergency number for our local police goes to the watch sergeants phone at the police station. Last time I checked he/she wasn't a civilian but a police officer.
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    While said unarmed kid was pounding an innocent man's head into mush on the pavement, having already broken said innocent man's nose.
    Notice how you place neighborhood watch in quotation marks. Gee, Noony, why'd ya do that?
    Because, technically, George wasn't officially registered with the police department as official Neighborhood Watch. The HOA, however, did appoint him and there is apparently an HOA newsletter saying so; hence, there is also some talk of the family suing the HOA. And they may be able to do that since the HOA did not get George officially registered and trained.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    After that post (and the hundreds of others that you have posted on this topic), you think I'm riding a high horse? You refer to Trayvon as "Baby Boy" and his father as "Absent Dad", yet you refer to the shooter by his name, George Zimmerman. You make a lot of judgemental guesses as to why he was staying with his dad, what was going on in the home, and so on, but that is not evidence regarding his death and isn't even admissible if the case comes to trial.


    I don't care whether Trayvon was a perfect kid. I don't care if his family is perfect. I care that an unarmed 17 year old was shot by a "neighborhood watch" volunteer who was told by the police to stop following the kid,
    No, he wasn't. You people keep repeating that lie, and it continues to not be true. And eve if it was, it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. When are you people going to get that through your heads?

    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    and that the original prosecutor took the shooter's word for it that it was self-defense without much of an investigation.
    Also patently false. There has been an investigation, a thorough one. The meme of the "botched investigation" just plain isn't true.

    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Do you know what it will come down to-the tapes of the 911 calls that the FBI is evaluating. If the screaming voice in the backround is determined to be Martin, not Zimmerman, the latter is going to be charged. If it is determined that it is George screaming, than he will not be charged.
    Not relevant either. Sorry.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    It has not been established that the kid wasn't acting in self-defense. Mr. Zimmerman was told by the police not to follow Trayvon, and he did anyways.
    WRONG.

    The foot pursuit was 25 SECONDS.

    25 SECONDS.

    It starts from 2:14 on the tape, when George leaves his vehicle, and (at most) goes to 2:39 on the tape when Trayvon disappears. For the rest of the call, George has no idea where Trayvon is.

    There is then about a minute between the end of George's call and the beginning of the 911 calls. In that minute, an altercation starts. There's not enough time for a lengthy pursuit, and not even a short one, since George doesn't know where Trayvon is. He'd have to search in the dark: highly unlikely as afraid as George was.
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  9. #39  
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    Here, Noonwitch

    A real, honest to God timeline of George Zimmerman's call to the police:


    0.00: (a little after 7:00 pm): Zimmerman's call to non-emergency dispatch. He is in his vehicle

    0.48: Zimmerman notices Trayvon staring at him.

    0.58-2:06: Trayvon approaches Zimmerman's vehicle.

    2.06: Trayvon changes his mind and starts to run. Zimmerman still in his SUV.

    2.10: Zimmerman gets out of his SUV. (2.10-2.14)

    2:14-2:39: Zimmerman pursues Trayvon on foot. He is winded. Huffing and puffing. (Windedness: 2.20-2.45 on the tape)

    2.23: Dispatch asks if Zimmerman is in pursuit.

    2.26: "We don't need you to do this."

    2.39: Trayvon completely disappears. Zimmerman no longer sees him.

    2.39-2.45: Zimmerman's breathing calms

    2:45-4.11: Zimmerman and dispatch discuss where to meet police officer; Zimmerman gives his name and address, but registers fear that Trayvon might still be around somewhere. Clearly Zimmerman doesn't see him or know where he is.

    4.11-5.11 (approx): Unclear. Zimmerman claims he walked back to van and Trayvon attacked him.

    5.11 (approx): First 911 calls from neighbors start.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
    Last edited by Elspeth; 03-28-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman Pirate View Post
    Do you have a citation for this? Because up here in Washington state, the non-emergency number for our local police goes to the watch sergeants phone at the police station. Last time I checked he/she wasn't a civilian but a police officer.
    I do.

    Zimmerman, who was in his truck, told the dispatcher that the suspicious person had his hand in his waist band — suggesting he thought the teen was armed, a fact that could bolster his defense. “Something’s wrong with him. He’s coming to check me out,” Zimmerman said.

    As Zimmerman narrated, the dispatcher asked: “Are you following him?”

    “Yeah,” Zimmerman replied.

    “We don’t need you to do that,” the dispatcher said.

    An interpretation of that exchange could be key in deciding whether Zimmerman acted recklessly in pursuing Martin. Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, in an interview last week, suggested that Zimmerman did not.

    “That’s another question we get quite often: ‘He was told not to follow him.’’’ Lee said in an interview last week. “Well that’s a recommendation or a suggestion. It’s not a lawful order.”

    It doesn't matter if it's the local chief of police or the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover on the other end of that telephone line, one does not have any obligation to obey someone on a telephone.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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