3-Year-Old Accidentally Shot Himself With Found Gun, Mom Faces Manslaughter Charges

**fettpett** · 03-28-2012, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Adam Wood

Ten is a long way from three, which is how old this kid was.

I'd be a little twitchy about how well it would "take" at four years old, but each kid is different. I wholeheartedly agree with you that gun education, early and often, is the key. But I'm not going to leave my loaded gun unattended in a car (or anywhere else) within easy reach of any three-year-old, that's for sure. These dingbats clearly were just careless morons who themselves didn't know what the gun was capable of.

I completely agree with you, wont leave it loaded anywhere.

I'm sure didn't really sink in to my 4 year old, but it was her first real exposer to it and it was more about that then the education part. My son and oldest daughter it was their second time and they are old enough for it to really start to sink in, I'll keep doing it till they are old enough to actually start shooting. If I end up with my grandfathers guns like I had asked several years ago, I'm hoping to start my son on his old .22.

**Odysseus** · 03-28-2012, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkgirl

I know how to shoot shot guns by the way, not hand guns. Since I live alone, with my almost 3 year old daughter, I've thought about getting one...but I'm too worried about my curious toddler finding it in the house. My dad is willing to give me one of his shot guns but I still don't feel comfortable with a gun in my house, around my kid. Never mind showing it to her or handling it.

If you don't leave your gun loaded and within reach of your unsupervised child, you won't have a problem. OTOH, if she grows up knowing how to use one, she will never be a victim.

Mrs. O has a morbid fear of guns. Last year, I sold a black powder rifle that I'd been given as a gift, and before I took it out of the house, my oldest wanted to hold it, so I let her. Mrs. O freaked, even though loading and firing it would have taken considerable skill and effort. OTOH, my father taught me to shoot BB guns when I was five or six, and I've had a .22 single shot rifle since I was eight, which is my daughter's age. I was not permitted to touch it without my dad's supervision, but because he'd taught me to handle it, I knew that it wasn't a toy.

If you are really worried about her getting her hands on it, there are a number of gun locks that an adult can remove quickly but which effectively child-proof a gun. I saw one a few years ago that was a simple elastic cover for a handgun with a barrel block. You put the block in the barrel and slid the elastic over the frame, and it took more strength than a child's to pull it off, but it was quick for an adult. Omega makes an interesting one that also pretty simple and innovative.

**Elspeth** · 03-29-2012, 12:46 AM

Can I ask why a mother would leave a 3-year-old in the car alone under any circumstances? Here in Southern California, we have equally stupid people who leave young children in the car during a heat wave with the windows rolled up and they die. There have been parents who left their kids in the car and have had them abducted. There are so many stories like this. I really think that some people need a test of basic common sense before they reproduce.

**Rockntractor** · 03-29-2012, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Can I ask why a mother would leave a 3-year-old in the car alone under any circumstances? Here in Southern California, we have equally stupid people who leave young children in the car during a heat wave with the windows rolled up and they die. There have been parents who left their kids in the car and have had them abducted. There are so many stories like this. I really think that some people need a test of basic common sense before they reproduce.

Good point!

**Hawkgirl** · 03-29-2012, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Odysseus

If you don't leave your gun loaded and within reach of your unsupervised child, you won't have a problem. OTOH, if she grows up knowing how to use one, she will never be a victim.

Mrs. O has a morbid fear of guns. Last year, I sold a black powder rifle that I'd been given as a gift, and before I took it out of the house, my oldest wanted to hold it, so I let her. Mrs. O freaked, even though loading and firing it would have taken considerable skill and effort. OTOH, my father taught me to shoot BB guns when I was five or six, and I've had a .22 single shot rifle since I was eight, which is my daughter's age. I was not permitted to touch it without my dad's supervision, but because he'd taught me to handle it, I knew that it wasn't a toy.

If you are really worried about her getting her hands on it, there are a number of gun locks that an adult can remove quickly but which effectively child-proof a gun. I saw one a few years ago that was a simple elastic cover for a handgun with a barrel block. You put the block in the barrel and slid the elastic over the frame, and it took more strength than a child's to pull it off, but it was quick for an adult. Omega makes an interesting one that also pretty simple and innovative.

I still think, for my purposes, which is not to carry, but for home defense, would be a shot gun. It would be difficult for a child to use because of size. I can easily load one, it has great stopping power, it's just point and shoot..and there is nothing like the sound of racking your shotgun slide back to a potential intruder.

The drawback is that's it's not easy to hide and recoil is strong.

I'm just not comfortable with handguns.

BTW...my father has a few double barrel shotguns, 12 gauge, old skool style that I like, that I would most likely inherit. He also has two rifles, but I've never shot those. He's willing to give me one of the shotguns if I ever decide to have one.

**Hawkgirl** · 03-29-2012, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Can I ask why a mother would leave a 3-year-old in the car alone under any circumstances? Here in Southern California, we have equally stupid people who leave young children in the car during a heat wave with the windows rolled up and they die. There have been parents who left their kids in the car and have had them abducted. There are so many stories like this. I really think that some people need a test of basic common sense before they reproduce.

It's happened everywhere, not just in California. My parents actually saved a neighbor's month old baby a few years ago. This neighbor and her mother left their one month old baby in the car and went to Walmart. My parents ran into them and my mom asked how the new baby was doing. The mother and grandmother looked at each other and the mom ran to the car. Luckily, they hadn't been in the store long and the baby was fine. She and her husband send my parents a huge flower bouquet as a thanks.

**Elspeth** · 03-29-2012, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkgirl

It's happened everywhere, not just in California. My parents actually saved a neighbor's month old baby a few years ago. This neighbor and her mother left their one month old baby in the car and went to Walmart. My parents ran into them and my mom asked how the new baby was doing. The mother and grandmother looked at each other and the mom ran to the car. Luckily, they hadn't been in the store long and the baby was fine. She and her husband send my parents a huge flower bouquet as a thanks.

OMG, they forgot the baby!

Actually there was a sad story in Virginia a couple of years ago about a couple with a young baby. Both parents worked and it was the father's day to bring the baby to daycare. They put the baby in the back seat of the dad's car, but the dad forgot that his son was there and went into work. When he left work after a full day, the baby was dead in the back seat. The dad was charged with manslaughter but was acquitted. There was a lot of talk at the time about something called "Forgotten Baby Syndrome." Apparently parents were getting so stressed and tired that they were unable to think and went on "auto pilot." At least that was the theory. I remember the case because I couldn't imagine the horror and pain of that mother finding out that her son was gone because her husband forgot he was there.

**noonwitch** · 03-29-2012, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Rockntractor

I was firing them at 10 and went out hunting by myself at 12. You start teaching them to respect guns early under supervision and you don't have 8 year olds killing themselves.

That's reasonable, although, I'm not sure hunting alone at 12 is always safe, I guess it all depends on how close you are to home and what you are hunting. It's not that I think a well-trained responsible 12 year old can't handle the gun, it's more that a 12 year old can't always handle game wardens, cranky neighbors and large game like bears on his own.

**Hawkgirl** · 03-29-2012, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by noonwitch

That's reasonable, although, I'm not sure hunting alone at 12 is always safe, I guess it all depends on how close you are to home and what you are hunting. It's not that I think a well-trained responsible 12 year old can't handle the gun, it's more that a 12 year old can't always handle game wardens, cranky neighbors and large game like bears on his own.

My father and his brothers grew up in bumfluck Sicily and they started hunting at the age of 8 or 10. Everyone in Sicily had guns early on and the men/boys provided for their family the old fashioned way, hunting. You just needed a dependable weapon and a pack of beagles and you had dinner on the table.

Handguns being handled by kids is a different thing imo.

**Gentleman Pirate** · 03-29-2012, 01:09 PM

This happened up here. It's a horrible story and I feel awful for this woman who lost her child. This happened within a week or two of a police officer who left his gun (loaded) in his van as his kids played and his son shot his sister. Killing her.

No charges will be filed against this cop who left a loaded weapon (his personal gun) in an unlocked glove box and this woman is being charged with manslaughter. Why?

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Chil...142211265.html