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  1. #21  
    Senior Ape Articulate_Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I thought 2008 was the most important election. No wait, it was 2004. No wait, it was 1992.

    Everybody thinks doom will happen if their guy doesn't win.

    I thought if Bush got a second term, then he'd get his way in getting more nukes made and then start a nuclear war with N. Korea or one of those other countries he didn't like. Didn't happen.

    People thought Clinton and Obama would bring communism to the country. I know it's hard to believe, but that didn't happen.

    It will be okay. Just sayin.
    Lanie, your skepticism is fair and warranted given the hyperbole common to the election seasons over the years. I, quite frankly, hope you are right, but I have been kicking around for a while and I really do think this go around is different. In the past such rhetoric was about this policy or that policy, do we do this or do we do that?

    At this point in time, all of that tug-of-war over how much to spend beyond our means and who is to blame is moot. We are where we are, and where we are is not in a good place. This nation is headed for a financial catastrophe, the likes of which the world has never seen. While we bicker over issues of racism, social/economic equality, the environment, etc., the very fabric (whether it be just or not) that holds humanity together on this planet is very, very close to collapsing. That fabric is woven from the economies of almost every nation and is held together by the strands of a trusted currency with which to benchmark value.

    That benchmark is still the US dollar, but it will not be for much longer unless it can be proved we are worth it. I will not school you on the numbers, as they are readily available, both in Obamath and generally accepted accounting methods. If the US dollar loses its status as the global default currency, then all those fiat dollars that the Fed has pumped out via QE1 and QE2 (money printings 1 & 2) will drop in value like you won't believe.

    Now, couple all of that good news with Obama's agenda from Healthcare to Nutland and you have a nation that has hit rock bottom and has started digging.

    In short, this really is an election that will fundamentally change this nation, and, sadly, the choice seems to be death at dusk or death at dawn.
    Last edited by Articulate_Ape; 04-11-2012 at 12:11 AM.
    "The efforts of the government alone will never be enough. In the end the people must choose and the people must help themselves" ~ JFK; from his famous inauguration speech (What Democrats sounded like before today's neo-Liberals hijacked that party)
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  2. #22  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    I've been struggling with this for a while now. It's only been made more difficult since Santorum suspended his campaign. Background information; I'm a young man (28), Iraq war veteran, happily divorced with no kids. I've been told repeatedly that unless I support ABO this November, I might as well vote for the Socialist that is President Obama. Frankly, I'm torn.

    I held my nose and voted for Bush in 2004, knowing that Kerry was an elitist moron. I held it again in 2006 and voted for Specter after Toomey lost in the Pa primary. 2008 was a lost cause for Conservative principles (Presidentially) and I couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain.

    Which brings me to my question: Is it wrong to not vote for Romney? I've heard repeatedly that if I don't vote for him, I'm throwing my vote away and might as well vote for Obama. Well, I'm NOT voting for Obama. I respect the office but Hate his bonehead policies. But realistically....will Romney be that much different? Neither one holds the principled line that Goldwater and Reagan did. I'm personally tired of being offered the less of two evils.

    What do you think? Any advise?
    You sat out the last election because you didn't like McCain, but would McCain have been as bad as Obama? Would he have abandoned our gains in the Middle East? Would he have shafted our allies and sucked up to our enemies? Would he have spent trillions of dollars on idiotic stimulus and socialist pipe dreams? Would he have abandoned domestic energy sources? Would he have fomented racial conflict to shore up his reelection chances? Was he, when all is said and done, a dishonorable man? No. McCain was flawed, but he was a patriot who spent his entire life in service to his country. He would have been an order of magnitude better than Obama, and if the slow descent into socialism wouldn't have ended on his watch, at least he wouldn't have thrown off all constraints and shoved us in head first.

    Life isn't about making perfect choices, because more often than not, we don't have perfect options. We act on what is possible, not what we would like things to be. Right now, the choice is Romney or Obama. Anything else is a fantasy. If you sit it out, then Obama has one less vote to overcome, and that puts him one vote closer to having the "flexibility" that he wants for his second term, when he'll really pull out all of the stops.

    Remember your oath, Marine. Support and defend the Constitution.

    With your vote.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  3. #23  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    I'll put it to you this way. If you don't vote, you better not bitch when you are paying $100 for a loaf of bread and $50,000 for the next electric car. (inflation) Don't bitch when you are waiting 3 months for an MRI. Don't bitch when your doctor's visit copay is $300. Don't bitch when the Taliban retakes Afghanistan when we are gone. Don't bitch when your taxes are more than your take home pay.

    Just don't bitch, if you don't vote.
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  4. #24  
    Senior Ape Articulate_Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    You sat out the last election because you didn't like McCain, but would McCain have been as bad as Obama? Would he have abandoned our gains in the Middle East? Would he have shafted our allies and sucked up to our enemies? Would he have spent trillions of dollars on idiotic stimulus and socialist pipe dreams? Would he have abandoned domestic energy sources? Would he have fomented racial conflict to shore up his reelection chances? Was he, when all is said and done, a dishonorable man? No. McCain was flawed, but he was a patriot who spent his entire life in service to his country. He would have been an order of magnitude better than Obama, and if the slow descent into socialism wouldn't have ended on his watch, at least he wouldn't have thrown off all constraints and shoved us in head first.

    Life isn't about making perfect choices, because more often than not, we don't have perfect options. We act on what is possible, not what we would like things to be. Right now, the choice is Romney or Obama. Anything else is a fantasy. If you sit it out, then Obama has one less vote to overcome, and that puts him one vote closer to having the "flexibility" that he wants for his second term, when he'll really pull out all of the stops.

    Remember your oath, Marine. Support and defend the Constitution.

    With your vote.
    Have a some Karma, Ody. Sadly I have to give it to you the old-fashioned way since CU seems to have a quota thing in this regard
    "The efforts of the government alone will never be enough. In the end the people must choose and the people must help themselves" ~ JFK; from his famous inauguration speech (What Democrats sounded like before today's neo-Liberals hijacked that party)
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinejcksn View Post
    I've been struggling with this for a while now. It's only been made more difficult since Santorum suspended his campaign. Background information; I'm a young man (28), Iraq war veteran, happily divorced with no kids. I've been told repeatedly that unless I support ABO this November, I might as well vote for the Socialist that is President Obama. Frankly, I'm torn.

    I held my nose and voted for Bush in 2004, knowing that Kerry was an elitist moron. I held it again in 2006 and voted for Specter after Toomey lost in the Pa primary. 2008 was a lost cause for Conservative principles (Presidentially) and I couldn't bring myself to vote for McCain.

    Which brings me to my question: Is it wrong to not vote for Romney? I've heard repeatedly that if I don't vote for him, I'm throwing my vote away and might as well vote for Obama. Well, I'm NOT voting for Obama. I respect the office but Hate his bonehead policies. But realistically....will Romney be that much different? Neither one holds the principled line that Goldwater and Reagan did. I'm personally tired of being offered the less of two evils.

    What do you think? Any advise?
    I'm surprised that you didn't vote for McCain back in 2008. I did vote for McCain, although I held my nose when I did it.

    This time around, I have decided to sit out. Just as you couldn't bring yourself to vote for McCain four years ago, I can't bring myself to vote for Romney this time around. I don't fault conservatives who do vote for Romney, however, because what we have in the White House now is a total disaster. While it's true that Romney is better than Obama, the differences are not great enough to get me to pull the Romney lever.

    You are going to have to search your conscience and decide what to do on Election Day. In any case, don't let others force you into doing something that violates your conscience. That's the best advice I have.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    No it is not okay for you to sit it out, this will probably be the most important election you will ever vote in!
    In 100% seriousness, hasn't this been true of every election? I've literally heard this about every presidential election since I was able to vote.
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  7. #27  
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    My biggest irritation in all this that I feel like my free-will has been taken away.

    Romney was declared the winner from the get-go. The media told us since Iowa that he was "inevitable" and the only "serious candidate." The other candidates only made the news when they gaffed. It's push-pulling. On top of this, Romney got 5x or more the funding of the other candidates.... all from financial and corporate sector. But, Romney is pro-bailout so that makes sense.

    Now what's really suspicious is that the mainstream media are all owned by a small number of parent companies such as GE and Westinghouse. Entities that benefit from the policies that everyone is afraid Romney will implement (corporate welfare).

    Now maybe Romney is the best candidate, and maybe he's not. But he's been shoved down our throats, and we are told by the media and the Republican establishment that basically the primary system is a charade to validate the establishment candidate, and we're going to vote for who they damn well tell us. In fact, "winning" is defined by the media by whatever Romney happens to do that day. Romney ties his shoes? Oh, that's what winners do. Santorum ties his shoes? Doesn't he know that it's loafer season?! What a loser. Then crack a joke about Paul or Gingrich.

    This, more than anything else, on some deep instinctual level, makes me want to do the opposite of what the media and the establishment are telling me.
    Last edited by m00; 04-11-2012 at 03:23 AM.
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  8. #28  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike128 View Post
    I'm surprised that you didn't vote for McCain back in 2008. I did vote for McCain, although I held my nose when I did it.

    This time around, I have decided to sit out. Just as you couldn't bring yourself to vote for McCain four years ago, I can't bring myself to vote for Romney this time around. I don't fault conservatives who do vote for Romney, however, because what we have in the White House now is a total disaster. While it's true that Romney is better than Obama, the differences are not great enough to get me to pull the Romney lever.

    You are going to have to search your conscience and decide what to do on Election Day. In any case, don't let others force you into doing something that violates your conscience. That's the best advice I have.
    So what you are saying dumb ass is that Romney is better then Obama but you wont vote for the better candidate? There by allowing obama to win another election? You are either an obama supporter or the worlds biggest dumbass.
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  9. #29  
    Senior Member marinejcksn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    But you live in a rather important battleground state.
    Is it really a swing state though? Pa has voted Democrat 6 out of the last 10 elections and hasn't gone to a Republican since Bush the Elder.

    I'm definitely not staying home this fall. There are local and state races I'm following, and I want the chance to vote against Bob Casey.

    But now that Santorum is gone, and Newt Blowhard refuses to drop out in order to raise his speaking fees....I think I'm done with the Presidential race.

    Can I just ask one thing: can anyone tell me why they're enthusiastically voting for Romney? I know the reasons are "he's not Obama". But I want to vote for something positive rather than just against something again.
    "Don't vote. It only encourages the bastards." -PJ O'Roarke
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  10. #30  
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    I have never sat out an election. There are always Congressional or local candidates and issues to be decided. I am quite capable of leaving the top office blank; I have done it before.
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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