Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11  
    Senior Member enslaved1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kingman, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Well, I think the probability would be much greater if you ditch the requirement that 'alien life' be of an intelligence greater than or equal to our own.

    It is very recent still that we have the technology to find extrasolar planets, but it is still very limited and indirect. All the discovered planets, are gas giants (like Jupiter and bigger) AFAIK... detecting planets that would be earth-like is still beyond our technology. We still have no idea how common earth-like planets are, where life (as we know it anyways) could begin, and thrive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Batten

    The argument from probability that life could not form by natural processes but must have been created is sometimes acknowledged by evolutionists as a strong argument. The probability of the chance formation of a hypothetical functional ‘simple’ cell, given all the ingredients, is acknowledged to be worse than 1 in 1057800. This is a chance of 1 in a number with 57,800 zeros. It would take 11 full pages of magazine type to print this number. To try to put this in perspective, there are about 1080 (a number with 80 zeros) electrons in the universe. Even if every electron in our universe were another universe the same size as ours that would ‘only’ amount to 10160 electrons.
    Cheating with Chance, Answers In Genesis emphasis mine

    Yes, the source is biased, yes people will argue numbers all day long, but this way we have some actual numbers to argue over. :)
    Last edited by enslaved1; 09-17-2008 at 02:04 PM. Reason: clarity
    Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

    Differences between Obama and God: God's plan to save us is actually written down for people to read. Rush Limbaugh.

    My blog: How Things Look From Here Politics, religion, random stuff, now on Wednesdays!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #12  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Surf City, USA
    Posts
    3,782
    But you don’t understand! The ID demands that we are unique!

    (And I'm not talking about ‘Intelligent Design’, in case you were thinking that.);)
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #13  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,852
    Quote Originally Posted by enslaved1 View Post
    Cheating with Chance, Answers In Genesis emphasis mine

    Yes, the source is biased, yes people will argue numbers all day long, but this way we have some actual numbers to argue over. :)
    Yea, source is biased, but its pretty easy to pick apart this argument from AiG. It is oft repeated in various different forms, such as the one 4jack alluded to on the first page in reference to proteins and their probability of forming.

    There's not a lot of meat to their argument after reading it actually, but all these calculations generally assume a very complex starting point, such as a single cell, or even a strand of DNA, or a protein. They base the calculations on the assumptions that proteins, cells, DNA or whatever spontaneously formed in a single shot from a chance collision of all the right individual atoms or molecules at the same time. In other words, just poofing into existence out of thin air from a collection of free floating atoms. Kinda like saying the Mona Lisa is impossible, because if you toss buckets of paint at a canvas, you could never end up with anything that looks remotely like it :eek:

    Those probabilities do in fact show that such a model is insufficient... but no one actually thinks that how it happened. We do know many organic molecules (amino acids, some components of rna/dna) can form naturally from inorganic material under the right conditions, but we don't know all the steps involved to get from those chemicals to the first replicators that would lead to RNA/DNA. Hence, we can't know the probability of life forming, since we don't actually even know what the first living thing was, though we have some good guesses.... it definitely wasnt anything as complex as a cell, or even DNA/RNA, and probably wouldn't even fit well our current definition of life.

    So... we will have to be content with unsatisfied curiosity for a long time to come when it comes to figuring out if life in the universe is there, or probable/improbable.
    Last edited by wilbur; 09-17-2008 at 03:18 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #14  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,827
    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    if the chance of life forming on a given planet is as small as .0000001%, it would be a statistical certainty that the universe has lots of it, at least by our standards.
    Except, of course, that the chance is far, far worse than that. 1 in ten million? Add a few thousand more zeroes and you'd be closer to being accurate.
    OPEACHMENT NOW!!!

    Stinger:
    "I was... ordered to drop my pants, bend over and spread my cheeks."
    --RagingInMiami achieving the DUmp's highest level of nirvana
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #15  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,827
    Quote Originally Posted by enslaved1 View Post
    Cheating with Chance, Answers In Genesis emphasis mine

    Yes, the source is biased, yes people will argue numbers all day long, but this way we have some actual numbers to argue over. :)
    If evolutionists thought they could get away with it, they'd claim the chance of life forming anywhere is 1:1.
    OPEACHMENT NOW!!!

    Stinger:
    "I was... ordered to drop my pants, bend over and spread my cheeks."
    --RagingInMiami achieving the DUmp's highest level of nirvana
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #16  
    Senior Member Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Not Amused
    Posts
    852
    Quote Originally Posted by jinxmchue View Post
    If evolutionists thought they could get away with it, they'd claim the chance of life forming anywhere is 1:1.
    Yes, thank goodness the 'creation scientists' are there to keep us all honest.
    Last edited by Troll; 09-17-2008 at 04:05 PM.
    Nothing helps a bad mood like spreading it around.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #17  
    Resident Unliked Meanie Shannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,455
    Quote Originally Posted by Troll View Post
    Yes, thank goodness the 'creation scientists' are there to keep us all honest.
    I'm in a particularly foul mood today. I'll leave the internet now before I get mean.
    Loyalty Binds Me- Motto of Richard III
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #18  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Surf City, USA
    Posts
    3,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
    I'm in a particularly foul mood today. I'll leave the internet now before I get mean.
    And we’d only know that when we were enveloped by an eclipse.

    Movie reference: Central Park scene in "Independence Day.":eek:
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #19  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,852
    Quote Originally Posted by jinxmchue View Post
    Except, of course, that the chance is far, far worse than that. 1 in ten million? Add a few thousand more zeroes and you'd be closer to being accurate.
    What particular hypothesis for the formation of life is invalidated by your calculations? Certainly any calculation has to be specific for the particular hypothesis.

    See post #13, you will see why those calculations are irrelevant.

    Maybe life forming is just that improbable... but we simply don't have enough information to even begin to know. You don't know what the probability is, Fred Hoyle didn't know, and nobody who has ever lived or is living knows. Evolutionist, creationist, or ID'ist... if they claim they know, they are lying or misinformed.
    Last edited by wilbur; 09-17-2008 at 06:50 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #20  
    Senior Member IanMartins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    170
    Looking forward to the debates on whether extraterrestrials are born with the original sin or not.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •