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  1. #1 Obama pitchs $52M plan to regulate oil markets 
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    President Obama on Tuesday urged Congress to help strengthen federal supervision of international oil markets, amid pressure from U.S. voters to take action on rising gasoline prices.

    The president wants Congress to increase penalties for market manipulation and empower regulators to increase the amount of money energy traders are required to put behind their transactions.

    "Congress should do all of this right away," the president said Tuesday during a White House speech in the Rose Garden.

    Obama said the plan would put "more cops on the street" to catch speculators who attempt to manipulate markets for their own profit. He also chastised Congress for recently voting against ending tax breaks to U.S. oil companies and said passing his proposal would help members redeem themselves.
    Still, the president acknowledged such efforts "will not bring down gas prices overnight."

    The plan is more likely to draw sharp election-year distinctions with Republicans than have an immediate effect on prices at the pump. The measures seek to boost spending for Wall Street enforcement at a time when congressional Republicans are seeking to limit the reach of federal financial regulations.
    Obama was joined Tuesday by Attorney General Eric Holder in spelling out his $52 million proposal.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1sK30znEy
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  2. #2  
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    [QUOTE=txradioguy;498542......He also chastised Congress for recently voting against ending tax breaks to U.S. oil companies........[/QUOTE]
    Did this, in fact, happen? I am under the understanding that tax breaks for U.S. oil companies are a myth and do not exist. And I am not aware of any vote on legislation affecting oil companies specifically.

    And of course there is the slightly inconvenient fact that the U.S. legislature has nothing to do with the price of oil.
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    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Did this, in fact, happen? I am under the understanding that tax breaks for U.S. oil companies are a myth and do not exist. And I am not aware of any vote on legislation affecting oil companies specifically.

    And of course there is the slightly inconvenient fact that the U.S. legislature has nothing to do with the price of oil.
    Yup it happened:

    President Barack Obama called on Congress to stop taxpayer-funded subsidies for oil companies, and the Senate promptly ignored him Thursday.

    Senators voted 51 to 47 to end debate on a bill that would do what Obama asked, thus failing to reach the 60 votes needed to end a filibuster.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1387789.html
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

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    Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) argued that it wasn't a matter of helping oil companies, but of not raising taxes on them, which he said would lead them to raise gas prices.
    I keep ending up in the same place.
    Obama et al, says they oil companies get tax breaks. Oil companies say they do not.

    And every time the subject of eliminating tax breaks comes up, no one can tell us what tax breaks they are talking about. Then it turns out to be a tax increase that is wanted, not the elimination of unfair tax breaks.

    I would like for someone to tell me exactly what tax breaks the oil companies get that no one else gets. Because right now, I don't know what tax breaks they get that are unusual.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    I keep ending up in the same place.
    Obama et al, says they oil companies get tax breaks. Oil companies say they do not.
    It's semantics being played by the class warfare set.

    They call it tax breaks...companies call them incentives or subsidies. They get certain considerations from the government for taking the risk and manufacturing or exploring for or growing their product.

    What is done for the oil companies is no different than the subsidies farmers get for growing corn for ethanol.
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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    ............They call it tax breaks...companies call them incentives or subsidies. They get certain considerations from the government for taking the risk and manufacturing or exploring for or growing their product.

    What is done for the oil companies is no different than the subsidies farmers get for growing corn for ethanol.
    Still not getting anywhere with it:
    What subsidies? Everyone keeps talking about subsidies, but no one can tell me what they are. Oil companies say they don't even exist.

    Retread says they are myths, and that's what I'm getting from various sources....
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  7. #7  
    Ancient Fire Breather Retread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Did this, in fact, happen? I am under the understanding that tax breaks for U.S. oil companies are a myth and do not exist. And I am not aware of any vote on legislation affecting oil companies specifically.

    And of course there is the slightly inconvenient fact that the U.S. legislature has nothing to do with the price of oil.
    Big oil tax "breaks" or "subsidies" are both fictions created to demonize an industry. They get to make deductions from income before the absurdly high tax rate is applied just like you, me, your favorite auto dealership and the corner grocery store. None of those deductions are unique. They all apply to multiple corporations according to what their business is. But the combination of class envy/warfare created by guvmint and the MSM is part and parcel of the negative public perception thereby creating a drive to 'tax'm some more!'

    A little realism if you will:

    Exxonmobil (XOM) is the world's largest public held and traded, vertically integrated oil company. Note those defining terms. Without those added descriptive terms it rates as low as number 14 and maybe below that. I haven't checked ina while because now the complainers are inventing new ways to define 'largest'. (all according to what the meaning of 'is' is). For the financial folks out there, the current stock price of $85+ makes both the enterprize value and the market cap $400B. That's a lot of corporation there. The US portion of their profits is about 3% of the total profit. IOW - 97% of their profit comes from outside the US. They are running a relatively low PE of ~10 both forward and backward along with a higher than normal 9+% profit ratio. (the average for them along with most of the giants is closer to 6%) On a revenue of $433B that's a profit of about $40B this year. And that's the only number the public will ever see unless they go find out for them selves what the rate is. It will never be pointed out that the average financial institution, recently bailed out by this self-same guvmint is making 20% or better profits.

    Now, as to taxing:
    From the 2011 annual report....
    Income, sales based and all other taxes and duties totaled $108.1 billion in 2011, an increase of $18.9 billion or 21 percent from 2010. Income tax expense, both current and deferred, was $31.1 billion, $9.5 billion higher than 2010, eflecting higher pre-tax income in 2011. A higher share of pre-tax income from the Upstream segment in 2011 increased the effective tax rate to 46 percent compared to 45 percent in 2010. Sales-based and all other taxes and duties of $77.0 billion in 2011 increased $9.4 billion, reflecting higher prices.
    After 40 years in the energy industry I could go on and on for pages but will stop here .... for the time being.
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    Speculation on commodities is a legitimate part of the market and is certainly a contributor to price. But our dear Commissar refuses to allow America to develop its oil resources and this of course encourages speculators to drive up the price.

    When speculators see oil leases being cut off, the Keystone pipeline being denied, coal emissions being regulated to choke the industry out of existence, legal challenges to natural gas recovery, and continued threats and attempts to tax and regulate the energy industry even more than they already are, their obvious conclusion is that energy will become more scarce and therefore more valuable. They, therefor reasonably and legally, bid up the price. BO's policies are the prod for the high prices he and his energy Secretary SAID they wanted from the git go.

    And how much of our money has he pissed away on "green" energy speculation that goes absolutely nowhere or .. goes bankrupt?
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Is it me, or does he look like he's taking a leak?


    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    President Obama on Tuesday urged Congress to help strengthen federal supervision of international oil markets, amid pressure from U.S. voters to take action on rising gasoline prices.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz1sK30znEy
    I wasn't aware that the US government could regulate international markets. Somebody want to show me where the Constitution grants us that authority? If so, then the first thing that we ought to do is take over the oil fields in the Middle East and pump them dry.
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