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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    Because it is in scripture doesn't make it moral or right, either. ...
    The "scripture", as you put it, IS both moral and right...Try reading the Bible.
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache View Post
    The "scripture", as you put it, IS both moral and right...Try reading the Bible.
    Oh I have read the bible. You must have read something else.
    “A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.”Ayn Rand

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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    Oh I have read the bible. You must have read something else.
    Ok, show me New Testament, something immoral or wrong. It must be IN CONTEXT! Your ball...
    Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.
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    We could say they are spending like drunken sailors. That would be unfair to drunken sailors, they're spending their OWN money.
    Ronald Reagan

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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    I already turned in my ballot for May 8. I don't look into all the political games of the issue. I just ask myself a couple simple questions:

    Does it affect me if two men and women marry? No
    Is it equal treatment if two men and women who love each other are not allowed to get married? No


    I just look at it in black and white. I understand I will be in the minority on here, if not, the only one, and fully expect to catch hell. With that said, I will reiterate: It does not make my day any better or worse if two men are allowed to marry each other. I just don't understand the hysteria around it. I accept and respect anyone's religious beliefs and those inherent reasons for it, I just ask for someone to create an argument based on legal reasons, not religious beliefs. To each their own. I just want everyone to have the same opportunities as I do.
    With all due respect, it's doesn't make a solid argument simply to argue for or against something on the basis that it doesn't affect you personally. It probably wouldn't affect you if a man wanted to marry two or more women, his sister, or even if he wanted to marry an underage girl or boy. Now I'm not necessarily arguing on either side of the issue. And not all misgivings about same sex marriage arise strictly out of a religious sense. I understand the libertarian viewpoint and it has its upside, but I'm not sure if that's your foundation, or if it's because you're coming from a liberal bias.
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  5. #15  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadCat View Post
    Gay marriage is up for a vote in our state this May. An amendment to the state constitution that defines marriage as a union between one man and one woman. Simple enough.

    Signs are popping up in support and opposition of the amendment. Most of the support signs say "Marriage - One Man One Woman - Vote Yes on Amendment One"

    The signs against say "Vote against Amendment One".

    Why can't the left just say what it means?

    Why not signs that say "Bone Smugglers should be able to marry too" or "Let Lezzies Live in Matrimony"?

    Hey everybody, I'm the left. Well, sort of. Anyway, I'm for allowing gay marriage.

    Is there anybody here who is in the dark about that? Anybody confused about that? No? Okay, good.

    Now, let's talk about the so called "marriage" amendment.

    "Vote for marriage" is deceiving.

    I'm all for marriage. I'm actually traditional on this subject in sense that I think that marriage should be between two unrelated people (cousin marriages allowed in some states. Gross), and I actually think the two people should stay together until death do they part. If you have the attitude that it's cool to get married now and then get a divorce later, then you need to stop right where you are.

    I'm so much for marriage, that I think gay people should be allowed to join the club. Now, what's the worst thing that happens if gays are allowed to marry? Can they force churches to accept their union? Absolutely not. How about force churches to perform the ceremony? Absolutely not. The Roman Catholic Church not only doesn't accept gay marriage, but they also do not accept divorce and remarriage. Unless a divorced person gets an annullment through the church, the church will refuse to perform a new marriage ceremony and will even not allow a member to take communion if they're remarried. That's because their marriage isn't accepted in the eyes of the church. The law accepts it, but not the church.

    So this idea that religious people would somehow be forced into accepting gay marriage as legit just because the law does is an invalid argument. You can still tell them their marriage isn't valid. You can still tell them that their soul is in danger. You can still claim their somehow a threat to your family. Your right to act like an idiot on this subject will stay in place. You do not have to accept gays or gay marriage just because it's legal.

    Now, let's discuss the so called "marriage" amendment in NC even further. It says that marriage between a man and a woman will be the only domestic union. This means there is no room for common law marriages for heterosexuals in the future. It also puts a damper on domestic violence laws. Right now, our laws protect unmarried couples living together, people who live together in general, people who date, people who used to date, people who share a child, etc. Now, so called marriage proponents say we're being deceitful with that. However, experts from the UNC School of Law says it's true.

    http://www.law.unc.edu/documents/fac...reportnov8.pdf
    This would:
    invalidate domestic violence protections for all unmarried partners;
     undercut existing child custody and visitation law that is designed to protect the best
    interests of children;
     prevent the state from giving committed couples protections that help them order their
    relationships, including the right to
    o determine the disposition of their deceased partner’s remains;
    o visit their partner in the hospital in the event of a medical emergency;
    o to make emergency medical decisions for their partner if their partner is
    incapacitated; and
    o to make financial decisions for their partner if their partner is incapacitated.
    Furthermore, if courts interpreted it in a far-reaching manner, the Amendment could even:
     invalidate trusts, wills, and end-of-life directives by one partner in favor of the other.

    Now that I've quoted that, I'd like to discuss the rest of this.

    First, if you still think this can't happen, know it did already happen in Ohio.

    http://newyorklawschool.typepad.com/...upreme-co.html

    This happened in 2007. Know when Ohio passed this so called "marriage" amendment? 2004.

    It took three years for Ohio to get it together in regards to this amendment and DV laws, and how they are applied.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/...e-focuses.html

    North Carolina can perhaps learn from Ohio, which amended its constitution to include a same-sex marriage ban in 2004. Almost immediately, defense attorneys across the state tried to have criminal domestic-violence charges against their clients thrown out on the grounds that the new law meant opposite-sex unmarried couples were no longer protected.

    The ensuing confusion left conflicting decisions by judges throughout Ohio for two and a half years, until the state Supreme Court settled it by ruling the domestic violence laws and the constitutional amendment were not in conflict.

    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/...#storylink=cpy
    Now, let's discuss the rest of this. If a couple allowed visitation or custody rights to a domestic partner, this can be invalidated now. Some counties (mostly the liberal ones I'll admit) were allowed to allow healthcare benefits to domestic partners (gay and straight). This law passes, and those counties will no longer have that option.

    You can make a will saying who gets what, but it can take months to apply a will.

    Power of Attorney? Better keep that piece of paper with you at all times. Even then, somebody could try to challenge the validity of it.

    So, I usually make my point and go. Not this time. I'm asking, more like begging people, including people here who might live in NC to vote against this amendment. Don't do it for gays. Do it for your own family. Do it for the people you know who could be affected by this. Do it for them. Gay marriage will still be illegal, and the chances of it ever being made legal here in NC is very very slim. The federal government would have to get involved. No way would gay marriage come here to NC on a state level.

    So, I'm actually being bold enough to ask people here to vote against it. And yes, I know which board I'm on.
    Last edited by Lanie; 04-23-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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  6. #16  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    I already turned in my ballot for May 8. I don't look into all the political games of the issue. I just ask myself a couple simple questions:

    Does it affect me if two men and women marry? No
    Is it equal treatment if two men and women who love each other are not allowed to get married? No


    I just look at it in black and white. I understand I will be in the minority on here, if not, the only one, and fully expect to catch hell. With that said, I will reiterate: It does not make my day any better or worse if two men are allowed to marry each other. I just don't understand the hysteria around it. I accept and respect anyone's religious beliefs and those inherent reasons for it, I just ask for someone to create an argument based on legal reasons, not religious beliefs. To each their own. I just want everyone to have the same opportunities as I do.
    Out of curiosity, did your ballot have the comment about "This will not stop being from making private contracts?" The reason I ask is because I've looked at the sample ballot and didn't find this extra comment on there.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    So, I'm actually being bold enough to ask people here to vote against it. And yes, I know which board I'm on.
    So you're basically telling God to "shove it"?
    Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.
    Ronald Reagan

    We could say they are spending like drunken sailors. That would be unfair to drunken sailors, they're spending their OWN money.
    Ronald Reagan

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  8. #18  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache View Post
    Because it's legal, doesn't make it moral or right. Just because it doesn't affect you personally, doesn't mean it doesn't affect society as a whole. Part of the problem America has now, is the "ME" mentality...
    If Amendment One does not get passed, gay marriage will still be illegal. After pushing for an amendment against gay marriage being allowed, I highly doubt the state will try to pass any laws or amendments allowing it. So, gay marriage is not a "threat" here unless the federal government steps in.

    If Amendment One does pass, it's going to hurt a lot more people than just homosexuals. It will hurt heterosexuals too. Are people willing to live with those consequences?

    Also want to stress that you don't have to accept homosexuality just because gay marriage is legal. Imagine if divorce and remarriage became illegal because the Catholic Church didn't approve of it. You can still have your exclusive meetings, clubs, contracts, or whatever.
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  9. #19  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apache View Post
    The "scripture", as you put it, IS both moral and right...Try reading the Bible.
    Good idea. Let's see what Jesus has to say about marriage.

    http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/divorce.html

    In Luke 16:18 Jesus says:
    Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.
    2) Mark also records Jesus thoughts on the issue, Mark 10:2-12:
    2 And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" 3 He answered them, "What did Moses command you?" 4 They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away." 5 But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 6 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' 7 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." 10 And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. 11 And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."
    Is anybody here divorced or remarried? If so, then where do you (generic you) get off judging gay people?
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post

    Also want to stress that you don't have to accept homosexuality just because gay marriage is legal. Imagine if divorce and remarriage became illegal because the Catholic Church didn't approve of it. You can still have your exclusive meetings, clubs, contracts, or whatever.
    I will never accept homosexuality.An amendment, a law, a whatever doesn't make homosexuality normal or acceptable. It is deviant AND a sin... period!
    Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem.
    Ronald Reagan

    We could say they are spending like drunken sailors. That would be unfair to drunken sailors, they're spending their OWN money.
    Ronald Reagan

    R.I.P. Crockspot
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