Handcuffed man beaten, tazed, and killed by Border Control Police.

**Rockntractor** · 04-24-2012, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei

If you do not comply with the new Obamacare laws, or any other laws or regulations passed by this or any other administration, does that authorize police to beat or kill you?

You tell me, the socialist governments you subscribe to have. Killed hundreds of millions.

Sent from my ADR6325 using Tapatalk 2

**Wei Wu Wei** · 04-24-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rockntractor

You tell me, the socialist governments you subscribe to have. Killed hundreds of millions.

I've never expressed sympathy or support for totalitarian governments murdering people.

You think me using a Marxist concept to analyze a situation means I support Stalinist show trials and murder? That's an extreme leap, it's laughable.

Meanwhile, people here are openly saying this event itself is a good thing, but that is acceptable?

**Wei Wu Wei** · 04-24-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by noonwitch

Juries are not sympathetic if it can be established that the agents continued to beat the guy after he was in handcuffs. They weren't here.

Juries (in fact, most people in general it seems) tend to take police statements as articles of fact.

Eyewitness accounts are up for scrutiny, victim testimony is always taken with a pile of salt, but a police report is usually taken as Factual Proof.

It's a not-so-strange psychological phenomenon.

**Rockntractor** · 04-24-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wei Wu Wei

I've never expressed sympathy or support for totalitarian governments murdering people.

You think me using a Marxist concept to analyze a situation means I support Stalinist show trials and murder? That's an extreme leap, it's laughable.

Meanwhile, people here are openly saying this event itself is a good thing, but that is acceptable?

You are a communist and historically all communist regimes have been murderous so I have a hard time with your supposed outrage over anything like this.

**NJCardFan** · 04-24-2012, 02:43 PM

Funny how people who've never been in this position like to make opinions on how to handle things. As I've said, I've seen shackled inmates do damage. Also, you don't know what happened before the video started and, yes, if you're told to stop resisting then yes you will be met with force. Simple solution, when told to stop resisting, stop resisting. It's not that hard to figure out. If you're rights are being violated by being detained, fighting back isn't going to help matter much. This guy was told to stop resisting(looking at the video, he is trying to get up) and didn't listen. Also, the tazer or beating didn't kill him, the heart attack did apparently and considering the autopsy showed he had drugs in his system I don't suppose it's possible the drugs game him the cardiac arrest.

**Artois** · 04-24-2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by NJCardFan

As I've said, I've seen shackled inmates do damage.

Also, the tazer or beating didn't kill him, the heart attack did apparently and considering the autopsy showed he had drugs in his system I don't suppose it's possible the drugs game him the cardiac arrest.

You're absolutely right that a person in shackles or handcuffs can still present a danger.

Didn't the medical examiner also rule it as a homicide though? We can't take the drug results of the autopsy, and than ignore the ME's overall conclusion.

Drugs in your system can very well contribute to a heart attack when placed under sudden trauma, which unfortunately may have been introduced by the beating and tazering by the officers. A friend of mine even killed a thief just by tackling him, do to the trauma of being tackled while stressed out from running with drugs in his system. He's still battling that legal mess, years later.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't even consider passing a judgement or condemnation of the officers over a quick glance of that grainy video. I would say that it poses some questions and warrants a professional investigation though.

**NJCardFan** · 04-24-2012, 03:36 PM

If that's the case then the officers will be dealt with accordingly. However, wee wee posting this is nothing more than a failed attempt at showing this country as a police state which is funny considering his political leanings.

**Wei Wu Wei** · 04-24-2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Rockntractor

You are a communist and historically all communist regimes have been murderous so I have a hard time with your supposed outrage over anything like this.

You fixate too hard on your made up labels. I think the history of the Soviet Union was perhaps the greatest tragedy in human history. It's perhaps even more tragic than the Fascist atrocities in places like Nazi Germany, Mussolini's Italy, or Pinochet's Chile. While those things were undoubtedly horrible, they were open about their evil intentions. In the Soviet Union, they had noble goals that went horribly wrong and there is no excusing the events that occurred, for example, under Stalin.

In no way would I support a Stalinist state nor would I support a "return to the early 20th century" with a repeat of the Russian revolution. Those were absolute failures and it's important to take a real, honest look at what occurred there, rather than simply broad brushing the entire century and assuming anything associated with the Soviet Union is evil.

The unforgivable tragedy of the Soviet Union is almost matched by it's greatness, the level of advancement they made in their first 50 years as well as the level of terror, was absolutely unprecedented in all of human history

This is worthy of true academic investigation and historical analysis, not blind generalizations and uninformed blow-harding.

If you want to call me a communist, fine have fun with that, but you'll have to figure out how you define that because I wouldn't support a return to any of the 20th century communist regimes.