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  1. #1 Is it cool to kill someone that is a detested enemy of our country? 
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    kentuck goes into "heavy thinking" mode...dude.


    Thu May 3, 2012, 11:14 PM
    kentuck

    Is it cool to kill someone that is a detested enemy of our country?

    More specifically, Osama Bin Laden?

    There is something sick and disturbing about celebrating the death of anyone, in my opinion.

    I understand that there was and is a lot of pain from what happened on 9/11 and the desire for revenge from many of those that lost loved ones on that day. But what about the rest of the country? Should we be rejoicing and celebrating the death of another person?

    Is it OK to torture our enemies? Does this lead to an overall coarsening of our society and does it make us less a part of humanity?

    Personally, I have a problem with anyone celebrating the death of another person, no matter how evil, because in the end, it is celebrating the death of us all. It is easy to justify but that does not make it right.

    It is just my opinion, but I do not think we should high-five when an enemy is killed in war. But rather, we should mourn all loss of life as a diminution of our entire human race. There is something disturbing about the way our leaders discuss this entire debate.

    Even in a "justifiable war" theory, there is no justification for the glorification of our leaders that are responsible for the deaths of so many. There is something unseemly and wrong...

    .
    And since it's military, General Nadin feels she just has to comment...

    Response to kentuck (Original post)
    Thu May 3, 2012, 11:35 PM
    "General" nadinbrzezinski

    3. I will ask you something...


    have you ever served in front lines? If you have, then some of this will make sense.

    Some of this is bragadoschio by mostly civilians who mostly have not served. But realize the President gave the GO order, he knew exactly what would happen if they failed. Mullen saw the team and met their gaze.

    But celebrating the death of an enemy, right nor wrong, is as old as war itself. OBL, as far as many Americans were and are still concerned, was no longer human. It is the same way as Tojo, Hitler, Charlie, the Hun... you mention it... the first step in war, and in some ways this is a very low intensity war, that should more properly be a police action, involves dehumanizing the enemy.

    Don't worry the Jihadis have done the same with the American invader in Afghanistan. Why the first step in any peace negotiation is actually not the size and shape of the people, but realizing the other side is also human. Believe it or not, that one some people, mostly front line grunts, never quite achieve.

    Morality, no, not really... human nature... or chimp nature. I suspect them chimps that also go to war do something similar, and elephants and dolphins. We are not alone, even if we are that much more efficient at it.

    Oh ultimately they fight over the same crap we do... resources. We just clothe it in nicer clot
    May the FORCE be with you!
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  2. #2  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    kentuck
    Is it cool to kill someone that is a detested enemy of our country?


    Yes. Yes it is. But we'll give you a head start.
    Last edited by Odysseus; 05-04-2012 at 11:13 AM.
    --Odysseus
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    What's hard to understand is how Obama will condemn the waterboarding for information, then nuke the enemy with drones. He wants it both ways. Maybe one of his rainbows goes over the targets right before the drones hit. Or the ponies watch---you gotta love those rainbows and ponies.
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    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintLouieWoman View Post
    What's hard to understand is how Obama will condemn the waterboarding for information, then nuke the enemy with drones. He wants it both ways. Maybe one of his rainbows goes over the targets right before the drones hit. Or the ponies watch---you gotta love those rainbows and ponies.
    Killing terrorists in countries that lack CNN bureaus doesn't count as killing, because it doesn't make the news. It's like quitting smoking by only smoking other people's cigarettes, or saying that snacks between meals don't count against your diet.

    Seriously, though, if Gore had been inaugurated in 2001, then the same people who opposed every single thing done by Bush would have screamed bloody murder if anybody criticized Gore's War. It wasn't principle, it was political expediency.
    --Odysseus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Killing terrorists in countries that lack CNN bureaus doesn't count as killing, because it doesn't make the news. It's like quitting smoking by only smoking other people's cigarettes, or saying that snacks between meals don't count against your diet.

    Seriously, though, if Gore had been inaugurated in 2001, then the same people who opposed every single thing done by Bush would have screamed bloody murder if anybody criticized Gore's War. It wasn't principle, it was political expediency.
    It won't surprise you (or perhaps it would) that on the day of the attack on the US by Islamic terrorists (9-11-01) my first published comment was, "Today I was glad that Gore did not win."

    Frankly I wasn't expecting the scale of the President's response. I would have simply been happy with some aerial bombing of densely population Muslim areas, but even though I didn't and don't think that George Bush was the brightest candle on the cake (although he grows on you after out of office) , like Reagan I assumed that there were more intelligent and powerful men behind him actually running things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It won't surprise you (or perhaps it would) that on the day of the attack on the US by Islamic terrorists (9-11-01) my first published comment was, "Today I was glad that Gore did not win."

    Frankly I wasn't expecting the scale of the President's response. I would have simply been happy with some aerial bombing of densely population Muslim areas, but even though I didn't and don't think that George Bush was the brightest candle on the cake (although he grows on you after out of office) , like Reagan I assumed that there were more intelligent and powerful men behind him actually running things.
    I'd have been more surprised if you hadn't included the gratuitous slap at Reagan. As it is, allow me to remind you that Reagan was the one who drove our foreign policies, not the State Department's "more intelligent" men, who had overseen the previous decade's collapse of American influence and power overseas.

    But, I was also glad that Gore didn't win, if for no other reason than his reaction to 9/11 would have been outrage, not over the murder of 3,000 Americans, but at the increased carbon footprint on NYC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I'd have been more surprised if you hadn't included the gratuitous slap at Reagan.
    I have read countless paeans to Ronald Reagan. Many people loved him. People who voted against their interests loved him. No doubt about it. They credited him for being determined and visionary. I can't recall any of them praising his intellect. Howbeit, there are a lot of very smart people who never get anything done, and a lot of people of average or below average intelligence who accomplish great things.

    That's not damning with faint praise, it's objectivity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post

    But, I was also glad that Gore didn't win, if for no other reason than his reaction to 9/11 would have been outrage, not over the murder of 3,000 Americans, but at the increased carbon footprint on NYC.
    I thought I would kill the first person who said "candle light vigil". If candle light vigils comfort the mothers of young men who run into telephone poles that's great, but some things call for air strikes.
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    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I have read countless paeans to Ronald Reagan. Many people loved him. People who voted against their interests loved him. No doubt about it. They credited him for being determined and visionary. I can't recall any of them praising his intellect. Howbeit, there are a lot of very smart people who never get anything done, and a lot of people of average or below average intelligence who accomplish great things.
    I've read lots of things about Reagan as well, good and bad, but the thread didn't have anything to do with him until you inserted your snide comment. The point is not whether you are right or wrong about his intellect, it's about how you cannot resist taking cheap shots at a man who the rest of us have a great deal of respect for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    That's not damning with faint praise, it's objectivity.
    No, it isn't. It's your opinion. True, it was gleaned from a lot of other like-minded folks who also had a vested interest in treating Reagan as a dunce, but he was far from it. Read his newspaper columns from when he was president of SAG or prior to his run for CA governor, and you'll see that he was a lot smarter than you give him credit for being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I thought I would kill the first person who said "candle light vigil". If candle light vigils comfort the mothers of young men who run into telephone poles that's great, but some things call for air strikes.
    I'm all for candle-light vigils. That many open flames in close proximity to each other creates a distinctive thermal signature that makes sighting in cruise missiles infinitely easier.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  10. #10  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It won't surprise you (or perhaps it would) that on the day of the attack on the US by Islamic terrorists (9-11-01) my first published comment was, "Today I was glad that Gore did not win."

    Frankly I wasn't expecting the scale of the President's response. I would have simply been happy with some aerial bombing of densely population Muslim areas, but even though I didn't and don't think that George Bush was the brightest candle on the cake (although he grows on you after out of office) , like Reagan I assumed that there were more intelligent and powerful men behind him actually running things.

    That's funny, because my first thought was "I knew something like this would happen if Bush got in the White House, that's why I crossed over and voted for McCain in the GOP primary".
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