Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1 Trying youths as adults hurts families and taxpayers, but not crime 
    Senior Member aka:PBS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    saco,maine
    Posts
    547
    xchrom

    Trying youths as adults hurts families and taxpayers, but not crime

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/...-but-not-crime


    T.J. Lane speaks to his lawyer Robert Farinacci at his initial hearing March 6 in Geauga County Juvenile Court in Chardon, Ohio. Lane has been charged with three counts of aggravated murder for killing three students at Chardon High School in February. Op-ed contributor Liz Ryan says youths that end up in adult prisons are 'the population most at risk for sexual assault, physical abuse, and suicide.'
    Duncan Scott/News-Herald/AP

    If an Ohio juvenile court decides at a hearing today that he is competent to stand trial, 17-year-old T.J. Lane may become one of 250,000 youths prosecuted in adult criminal court every year.

    Mr. Lane is accused of killing three students at Chardon High School and wounding several others in February. This is a tragedy for everyone involved. My deepest sympathies go out to the victims and their families.

    The vast majority of youths in adult criminal court, however, are not charged with serious crimes, such as murder or rape. Less than 1 percent of the 2.2 million arrests of youths under 18 every year are for murder charges, and less than 5 percent of cases are for serious, violent crimes, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime report.

    Most youth cases that end up in adult court, get there automatically – a result of laws, for instance, that set the age for adult trial at 16 or 17. These youths are not afforded the benefit of any kind of judicial hearing or case review by a juvenile court judge.

    This nationwide practice is harmful to young people and can lead to serious, negative, and life-long consequences.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002650461

    Well if a juvenile wants to do adult crimes....they should do adult time. So far....one dummy gets it.

    cali
    2. Although I largely agree, someone like Lane

    should be charged as an adult. He murdered 3 people in cold blood. He's the wrong poster boy for this argument. Should he be protected in prison? Of course.
    Lets just paint some happy clouds over at the sunshine and lollipop land
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Senior Member DumbAss Tanker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,843
    One kewpie doll for Cali. Lucid moments like that are, sadly, an early warning sign of the dreaded terminal illness that has taken so many DUmmies to the gravestone - "Critical Thinking Syndrome."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    12,871
    I don't think we should ever try kids as adults for non-violent and/or property crimes, with the exception of DUIs and similar charges that involve reckless disregard for the lives of others.


    I used to think that it was always wrong to try someone under 16 as an adult for even violent crimes. I still do if the defendent is under 14, there is some level of coercion involving an adult directing the youth, the crime is truly accidental, or similar situations. But a cold-blooded 15 or 16 year old murderer or rapist is never going to change.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I don't think we should ever try kids as adults for non-violent and/or property crimes, with the exception of DUIs and similar charges that involve reckless disregard for the lives of others.


    I used to think that it was always wrong to try someone under 16 as an adult for even violent crimes. I still do if the defendent is under 14, there is some level of coercion involving an adult directing the youth, the crime is truly accidental, or similar situations. But a cold-blooded 15 or 16 year old murderer or rapist is never going to change.
    The purpose of the criminal justice system is not to protect the defendant, but to protect the rest of us from the defendant. If trying the defendant as an adult is warranted, it is because the defendant's danger to the rest of us is that of an adult predator, not a child or adolescent who may not repeat the act or who was subject to influence which can be removed.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16,305
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I don't think we should ever try kids as adults for non-violent and/or property crimes, with the exception of DUIs and similar charges that involve reckless disregard for the lives of others.


    I used to think that it was always wrong to try someone under 16 as an adult for even violent crimes. I still do if the defendent is under 14, there is some level of coercion involving an adult directing the youth, the crime is truly accidental, or similar situations. But a cold-blooded 15 or 16 year old murderer or rapist is never going to change.
    May I present to you Aaron Kean. No one directed him to do anything. However, he directed this 3 year old little boy to his death. He got adult time and deserves every minute of it.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    12,871
    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    May I present to you Aaron Kean. No one directed him to do anything. However, he directed this 3 year old little boy to his death. He got adult time and deserves every minute of it.

    10 is very young, especially when the child has a documented history of being physically abused himself. I understand that he committed a horrific crime, but I'm not sure that a 10 year old is beyond rehabilitation.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    10 is very young, especially when the child has a documented history of being physically abused himself. I understand that he committed a horrific crime, but I'm not sure that a 10 year old is beyond rehabilitation.
    His victim is beyond respiration.

    I believe that we need a new category of plea in the courts. Right now, the choices are guilty, or not guilty by reason of insanity. We also need a category, Guilty but mitigated by insanity, in which the perp is acknowledge to be insane, but whose crimes are so abhorrent and whose mental state so unbalanced, that there should not be any question of releasing them back into human society. They can be kept safely locked up, receive medical treatment, but remain away from potential victims, or the families of those that they victimized.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member Madisonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Peoples Democratic Socialist Republic of Michiganistanovia
    Posts
    2,417
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    10 is very young, especially when the child has a documented history of being physically abused himself. I understand that he committed a horrific crime, but I'm not sure that a 10 year old is beyond rehabilitation.
    True. It worked out well for Nathaniel Abraham, didn't it? I am sure you remember his case.
    PONTIAC — A man who spent his adolescent years in state custody for a rifle-slaying he committed at age 11 received a four-to-20-year prison sentence Monday on a drug conviction.
    Nearly two years to the day that he walked out of juvenile detention as a free man, Nathaniel Abraham was ordered back behind bars for trying to sell Ecstasy out of the trunk of his car.
    The 22-year-old from Pontiac was charged last year with dealing drugs after undercover officers in his hometown said they caught him selling at a gas station.

    "I'm not saying I'll never make a mistake again, given the opportunity. I know I can be a success to the community," Abraham told Oakland County Circuit Judge Daniel O'Brien during Monday morning's sentencing hearing.
    "A mistake is not noticing this step and tripping," O'Brien replied. "That's a mistake."
    "You have the ability to say `I'm never going to commit a crime again,' because crimes require an intent," O'Brien said.

    Abraham lawyer Byron Pitts said his client is sorry for what he's done.
    "He's going to have a long time to think about it," Pitts said.

    Abraham, who pleaded guilty in November to possession with intent to deliver a controlled substance, made national headlines when he fatally shot Ronnie Greene, 18, of Pontiac on Oct. 29, 1997. The then-11-year-old was arrested two days later and convicted in November 1999 of second-degree murder.

    Abraham was sentenced to juvenile detention until his 21st birthday and was released in January 2007.
    At that court hearing, Abraham caused a stir by donning a flamboyant suit that some viewed as inappropriate.
    "Show us all that you have become a caring, productive member of society," Oakland County Probate Judge Eugene Moore, who has been stern yet supportive of Abraham over the years, said at the time of his release.

    "I know you can do it. Do it."

    Sixteen months later, Abraham again was in police custody, arrested at the Pontiac gas station with 254 Ecstasy pills in a bag in his trunk.
    After the arrest, Moore said in a statement that he was "very disappointed and particularly sad for the hundreds of people who worked hard to rehabilitate him for the nine years he was in the state training school and the wonderful mentors and volunteers and churches that stood by him."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Fabulous Poster
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,161
    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    May I present to you Aaron Kean. No one directed him to do anything. However, he directed this 3 year old little boy to his death. He got adult time and deserves every minute of it.
    It's hard to imagine any child having so little compassion, and I have known some seriously self centered and cold young people. But there was always that clear line that never wanted to be crossed, the line where permanent damage was likely. Sure, there were accidents of misjudging but even the crazy kid in my neighborhood knew better than to beat a child with a baseball bat.

    On another note, how do you feel about lighter sentences in lieu of our public demand for LWOP and DP? In watching Lock Up Abroad, it seems like their prison population is more manageable because they have much fewer lifers. Am I wrong? Wouldn't 30 years and eligible for time-off for good behavior be good?

    And what is up with parole? Are we just hearing the one side or is parole nearly impossible to complete without getting into trouble? In particular, the comments that parole in Florida is so difficult that inmates prefer simply to finish their time so as to be free of the system.
    Last edited by Novaheart; 05-07-2012 at 03:24 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    42,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's hard to imagine any child having so little compassion, and I have known some seriously self centered and cold young people. But there was always that clear line that never wanted to be crossed, the line where permanent damage was likely. Sure, there were accidents of misjudging but even the crazy kid in my neighborhood knew better than to beat a child with a baseball bat.

    On another note, how do you feel about lighter sentences in lieu of our public demand for LWOP and DP? In watching Lock Up Abroad, it seems like their prison population is more manageable because they have much fewer lifers. Am I wrong? Wouldn't 30 years and eligible for time-off for good behavior be good?

    And what is up with parole? Are we just hearing the one side or is parole nearly impossible to complete without getting into trouble? In particular, the comments that parole in Florida is so difficult that inmates prefer simply to finish their time so as to be free of the system.
    Would spelling out two more words have Affected your schedule that badly?
    Last edited by Rockntractor; 05-07-2012 at 04:15 PM.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
    http://i.imgur.com/FHvkMSE.jpg
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •