CIA thwarts new al-Qaida underwear bomb plot

[Molon Labe]

Hey Molon ...

Lay off the CIA. Is an "independent" agency set up to help and work with the government in power, to protect this country at the behest of the President. Their operations are designed to be covert and I detest it when they are accidently or purposely, exposed to the public.

These agents take their lives in their hands on a daily basis in order to do their highly risky jobs. Could you possibly imagine how much "intelligence" and guts it took to infiltrate Al Qaida in the first place, and then get out alive after?

All of the above ... I must admit, written by an advocate of author Vince Flynn's unflinching "Mitch Rapp" character! ...

Never-the-less, I did mean every word of what I wrote.

~ ABC

I believe they are part of the problem. I don't believe they are flag waving "Patriots". They are not called the "Presiden'ts Personal Army" for nothing.

[Lager]

It worries me how much information was released about this operation unneccessarily. The fact is that Al Qaida will now be much more wary of dealing with a possible CIA plant. Had we kept much of this hidden and only released what was necessary for public safety, how much more could we have come up with in the future? How much of this reporting is for informing the masses and how much is to show the POTUS as achieving something on the war on terror?

[ABC in Georgia]

I believe they are part of the problem. I don't believe they are flag waving "Patriots". They are not called the "Presiden'ts Personal Army" for nothing.

Molon ... first a couple of questions, then will reply to your post.

Do you not believe that the USA is the last bastion of freedom in our ever-changing present day world? ... I do.

Do you believe that *if* our middle-eastern enemies and especially Al Qaida, can bring us to our knees ... that the rest of the countries will not all fall like dominoes ... leaving them (the Islamists) ... free to finally establish their longed for precious dream of a World Caliphate? ... I most definitely do.

Now back to my faith in the CIA.

Is the present Director of the CIA, David H. Petraeus, as were those that came before him, capable of making mistakes in judgement? Of course he is, as were they. No human being is infallible.

I do not have what it takes to second guess their decisions in what to do in order to look out for our National Security ... and neither do you, my friend. ...

~ ABC (gotta run!)

[ABC in Georgia]

It worries me how much information was released about this operation unneccessarily. The fact is that Al Qaida will now be much more wary of dealing with a possible CIA plant. Had we kept much of this hidden and only released what was necessary for public safety, how much more could we have come up with in the future? How much of this reporting is for informing the masses and how much is to show the POTUS as achieving something on the war on terror?

Lager ... I agree 100%

~ ABC

[Molon Labe]

Molon ... first a couple of questions, then will reply to your post.

Do you not believe that the USA is the last bastion of freedom in our ever-changing present day world? ... I do.

Do you believe that *if* our middle-eastern enemies and especially Al Qaida, can bring us to our knees ... that the rest of the countries will not all fall like dominoes ... leaving them (the Islamists) ... free to finally establish their longed for precious dream of a World Caliphate? ... I most definitely do.

Now back to my faith in the CIA.

Is the present Director of the CIA, David H. Petraeus, as were those that came before him, capable of making mistakes in judgement? Of course he is, as were they. No human being is infallible.

I do not have what it takes to second guess their decisions in what to do in order to look out for our National Security ... and neither do you, my friend. ...

~ ABC (gotta run!)

I believe I am "supposed" to live in a free society. I believe we are far from what we once were regarding being a totally free society. Our constitution hasn't truly been followed in a generation or more. And our Founders believed we should question what government does and should do. The true patriot resists government abuse of power.

So, yes, I do have what it takes to second guess what anyone or any group does in the publics name of our National security. We do that everyday when we say this or that person is better suited to protect us. The government works for me...not the other way around. That is my birthright as an American.

I can think of at least 5 immediate threats to my nation and liberty that are far more serious and more likely than than a Muslim extremist group bringing us to our knees. We are far more likely to be destroyed by ourselves.

So my lack of faith in the CIA and federal institutions in general comes from their incompetancy. If you help create the problem then you are part of it.

I love quotes by men more wise than I, and here are two that are applicable to this:

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty - George Washington

[ABC in Georgia]

And our Founders believed we should question what government does and should do.

Yes, you are 100% correct Molon.

When I wrote this:

I do not have what it takes to "second guess" their decisions in what to do in order to look out for our National Security ... and neither do you, my friend. ...

I foolishly used the wrong words. What I was trying to get across was that neither you nor I, have access to the facts as do those in charge, nor the training needed to deal with them, once collected.

And neither you nor I, in that respect, are entitled to any input or alternate suggestions of any kind.

I love quotes by men more wise than I, and here are two that are applicable to this:

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

While that rings true ... (re all the garbage we are put through these days thanks to Homeland Security since 9-11) ... are we to sit back and simply wait for another attack, before doing anything about it to protect ourselves?

Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty - George Washington

Can't really speak to whether ours are overgrown or not, as don't have facts at hand or time to look any up ... but will say, "I didn't think ours were growing in any direction at all lately, only being cut back, underfunded, etc."

~ ABC

[Molon Labe]

What I was trying to get across was that neither you nor I, have access to the facts as do those in charge, nor the training needed to deal with them, once collected.

Sure there is. I believe there is enough open sourced information and historical references for people to educate themeselves on. You can read tons of open sourced references that speak to most of the questions you probably have about the GWOT. The problem is most people don't know where to look or don't really care to look. Many tend to get their info from Rachel Madcow or Sean Hannity and call it a day.

A good historical study of the CIA and doing a little institutional analysis of them has helped me conclude that they do more harm than good, and that they have been incompetant and abused their power. And that they serve the President with no Congressional oversight nor Public scrutiny. That is in direct conflict with a free and open society. Too many National Secrets does not equal a Free society.

If you want to be "protected" then what I'm saying is you might want to look into how the CIA helps perpetuate the danger.

[ABC in Georgia]

Sure there is. I believe there is enough open sourced information and historical references for people to educate themeselves on.

I disagree. While yes, we can research our hearts out and keep informed as to what went on in the distant and near past, ... we the ordinary folks do not get "confidential daily intelligence briefings" on what is going on at the moment.

Many tend to get their info from Rachel Madcow or Sean Hannity and call it a day.

Rachel Madow ?!!! Lefty twits, perhaps. Am guilty, however, of streaming live radio on my computer, throughout the day when home, and listening to Neal Boortz and Rush Limbaugh.

Don't care much for Hannity, and would far rather read after dinner than watch TV anyway.

~ ABC

[ABC in Georgia]

With apologies for being slightly off topic here guys ...

Gina, what have you done to me with this, one of my favorite topics, girl? ...

I have neither the time nor the *energy* left needed to indulge:

Indulge ~ Verb: Allow oneself to enjoy the pleasure of ...

... posting in your thread, as have a relative from England, arriving this coming Monday for a 2 week visit ... are going away this weekend to check on things at our place up in NC, ... and as usual am up to my eyebrows in things that need attending to back here.

Will check in again after dinner tonight and then will not be available for awhile.

Need to have myself cloned, I swear! ...

~ ABC

[Gina]

Sorry ABC, I should have known since CIA is another 3 letter thing like you!