http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014121850
It's amazing the length some of them will go to claim Martin was simply the "victim".The Martin/Zimmerman wars are heating up over at DU.
Vattel (2,948 posts)
George Zimmerman had a broken nose, two cuts and two black eyes: ABC News report
Last edited Tue May 15, 2012, 06:44 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Source: ABC News
The day after he killed Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman showed up at a doctor’s office with a broken nose, two black eyes and two small cuts on the back of his head, ABC News reported Tuesday.
According to medical records obtained by the network, he also had a minor back injury.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/1...#storylink=cpy
Star Member patrice (37,446 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
18. I still don't get how he could think his life was threatened, since HE was the one with THE GUN.
Even with these kinds of injuries, HOW could he think his life was in danger, HOW could he think an unarmed KID COULD kill him; he's the one with the gun!minavasht (413 posts)
33. So what kind of injuries would warrant
the shooting?
Is there a set limit when it is OK to shoot?
Broken nose apparently is not OK.
Cuts to your head are also not OK.
Maybe a broken nose and a broken jaw? How about two broken arms? How many broken ribs are enough - you have a bunch anyway, maybe we set the limit at 5?
How about slamming your head into concrete? Are 3 times enough? Maybe 25?
And who keeps the count? Do you ask for a timeout to do an inventory and if you are below the limit, let him beat you up some more, before you can shoot?
BTW, in 2010 5.8% of the reported murders were committed with bare hands. Look it up, it happens all the time.Star Member patrice (37,446 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
50. Are you suggesting that someone with a gun in their hand in that situation, mentally assess how
close to some legal definition his experience is?
Or that we do that assessment after the fact?
If we're supposed to do it after the fact, where's the individual's responsibility in situ to recognize when the line has been crossed, or not, and get it right or suffer the consequences?Star Member patrice (37,446 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
54. After-all, the balance of power was hugely in Z's favor. Do you know what it takes to beat someone
Last edited Tue May 15, 2012, 08:26 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)
to death? Compared to what it takes to kill someone with a gun,minavasht (413 posts)
55. Exactly!
We weren't there at the time. We don't know how he felt when he was being punched. We know he had a broken nose and many smaller injuries to his head.
Maybe you box regularly and can take many punches to your head. Maybe you are used to have your nose broken by a stranger. Maybe you can fight off somebody who is stronger that you and has you on the ground. To most people this would feel like a life or death situation. Do you expect them to wait until they are dying before they shoot their attacker?Or maybe Zimmerman would be dead.Star Member patrice (37,446 posts)
105. It might FEEL like a life or death situation, but it might RATIONALLY be otherwise. Law is rational.
Law wouldn't work at all if it adjudicated on the grounds of something as ephemeral as feelings/emotions.
Lots of things FEEL bad, but are rationally efficacious. Lots of things FEEL good, but are rationally bad.
You are right, he might feel like it was life or death, but he has a RATIONAL responsibility to ascertain whether that feeling is correct or not, especially since the other person is unarmed and HE is the one with the gun.
Z was SUPPOSED to figure it out. The law says there are consequences for deciding wrongly.
His responsibility is commensurate with his power, the gun, a greater power than Trayvon had, therefore much more responsibility for getting it right.
If he had been responsible enough to get it figured out right, Trayvon would be alive, and justly so, and Zimmerman would be a free man. He didn't just fuck up. He fucked up BIG, because of the gun. He must pay the price.
But then most of them wouldn't care about that.
ProgressiveProfessor (16,625 posts)
113. That is not quite the way it works
The standard is reasonable fear of GBI or death. That is not the same as some after action analysis by a bunch of suits.
- Whether your attacker is unarmed (or not) is not relevant
- There is no commensurate standard/responsibility in the law.
What it boils down to is would a reasonable person in similar circumstances believe that they were at immediate risk of GBI or death. FL is not alone in that standard, it is used nationwide.
Due to the withholding of the evidence from the public, none of us have an adequate basis for informed judgement. While like many I have a hard time seeing how it could not be a crime, the honest answer is we really don't have enough information. I expect a few more surprised before this is done.minavasht (413 posts)
22. Many people refuse medical treatment
or transportation to the hospital, trying to avoid the medical bills.
In many cases bruises are visible after 24-36 hours, that's why all victims are asked to contact the police later if bruises become visible.
If I remember correctly, the injuries on the back of his head were documented after the shooting and confirmed by the police.
Also, there was a report stating that Trayvon only had injuries on his knuckles.
I'd wait until all the evidence is available to make a judgment.Star Member Hoyt (6,485 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
32. ". . .Trayvon only had injuries on his knuckles" -- What about the big friggin lethal bullet hole?
The facts are pretty clear to me. If the unarmed teenager broke Zimmerman's nose, etc., before being shot -- then Zimmerman got only a fraction of what he deserved.
I'm not sure they'll find 12 jurors to convict him, though.Star Member Control-Z (6,176 posts)
69. Are you messing with us?
Do you honestly believe all evidence points to Trayvon starting the physical confrontation?minavasht (413 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
78. I don't know
1 - Zimmerman has many injuries to his head. Picture of the lacerations was confirmed by the police as authentic. We now have the medical report.
2 - no reports of injuries to Zimmerman's knuckles - if you've ever been into a fight you'll know what I'm talking about.
3- Trayvon had injuries only from the gunshot would and on his knuckles. There is no evidence that he was ever hit by Zimmerman.
Put 1, 2 and 3 together and see what you get.And it goes on and on.....Star Member JDPriestly (31,106 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
100. Have you seen the medical report on Trayvon?
And Zimmerman may have had injuries to his hands but not great enough to draw the attention of his doctor or the police.
Originally Posted by Odysseus
