Thread: Pyrrhic Victory for the ACLU in Texas?

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  1. #1 Pyrrhic Victory for the ACLU in Texas? 
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    May 17, 2012
    Robert Knight

    In Lewisville, Texas, there will be a benediction and invocation at the graduation ceremony on June 3rd this year, but thanks to the ACLU, the program will call them something else.

    "Our attorneys have made it clear that we can continue to have student-led prayer, but we will call it 'student remarks,'" Kevin Rogers, chief operating officer of the Lewisville Independent School District, told the Dallas Morning News.

    Thus, the ACLU of Texas won a pyrrhic battle in its ongoing campaign to wipe out any references to God in public school ceremonies.

    "If the kids want to pray -- those who are participating and speaking at the graduation because they earned the right to do that in some way, either being the valedictorian, or student class president, or whatever the school prescribes -- then those kids can pray, if they so choose," Hiram Sasser, an attorney for the Texas-based Liberty Institute, told OneNewsNow. "And no government official can stop them."

    "By their very name, they're prayers, they're religious speeches," said Stephanie Bauman, staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas. "It's unconstitutional for a school to make that part of the program and ask a student to deliver it. It's a great step to change the name to something more neutral."

    It's not a perfect solution, though. By accepting the use of the term "remarks," the ACLU is forgoing a chance to challenge the offensive inclusion of the name of a book of the New Testament (the Gospel according to Mark). The ACLU could insist on using merely the descriptive term "words," except that the Gospel of John identifies Jesus as The Word. Is there no safe place in the public square for theophobes?

    Last year, the ACLU lost a bid to stop a graduation prayer at Medina Valley High School in Castroville, Texas. The Chief Judge of the U.S. Western District, Samuel "Fred" Biery, Jr., a 1993 Bill Clinton appointee, had barred public prayer at the ceremony at the request of parents of an agnostic teen who claimed he would "suffer irreparable harm."

    According to Liberty Institute attorney Erin Leu, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) and the Medina Valley community supported the inclusion of prayer in the valedictory, with Cornyn calling the judge's order "an activist decision."

    "Part of this goes to the very heart of the unraveling of moral values in this country," Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News Radio. He accused the judge of wanting to turn school officials into "speech police."

    "I've never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government," Abbott said. "It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment."

    After the 5th U.S. District Court overturned Biery's order, Valedictorian Angela Hildenbrand delivered her speech, complete with thanks to God and a prayer for her classmates.

    The teen who instigated the order declined to attend, according to OneNewsNow.

    No report was issued on how many other agnostic teens fell to the ground in agony, thrashing about and holding their ears.

    Robert Knight is Senior Fellow for the American Civil Rights Union.


    Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/..._in_texas.html at May 17, 2012 - 08:40:28 AM CDT

    I love the word "theophobe". That definitely has to become common usage.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
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    "By their very name, they're prayers, they're religious speeches," said Stephanie Bauman, staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas. "It's unconstitutional for a school to make that part of the program and ask a student to deliver it. It's a great step to change the name to something more neutral."
    What kind of douche do you have to be to work for the ACLU. Stephanie forgot about the 'Man's Prayer'. Does the ACLU have a branch office in Canada?

    Good men sleep peaceably in their beds at night because
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  3. #3  
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    The true clash here is not between the theist and the nontheist, but between the evangelical and the reticent. People who talk about Jesus all the time, who pray in public, who offer to pray for strangers or over things like car repairs are deemed "trashy" by devout people who believe that prayers are rightfully spoken outloud at family dinners and in churches, as well as by children at bedtime. All others (lottery tickets, tests, traffic citations) are prayed under ones breath.

    Seriously, if America had known that the Civil Rights Movement was going to unleash the poor white trash as well, it never would have happened.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    The true clash here is not between the theist and the nontheist, but between the evangelical and the reticent. People who talk about Jesus all the time, who pray in public, who offer to pray for strangers or over things like car repairs are deemed "trashy" by devout people who believe that prayers are rightfully spoken outloud at family dinners and in churches, as well as by children at bedtime. All others (lottery tickets, tests, traffic citations) are prayed under ones breath.

    Seriously, if America had known that the Civil Rights Movement was going to unleash the poor white trash as well, it never would have happened.
    How do you come to the conclusion that "People who talk about Jesus all the time, who pray in public, who offer to pray for strangers or over things like car repairs" are not devout? I'm a devout Christian who thinks that as long as someone is praising God, giving Him credit and praise for things in life.. trashy? I've been a Christian all my life and I never heard of such a thing.

    Btw, lottery tickets are a bad example, as they would not be purchased by a devout Christian. They represent the love of money, not trusting God to provide, etc.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Zeus's Avatar
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    "Part of this goes to the very heart of the unraveling of moral values in this country," Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told Fox News Radio. He accused the judge of wanting to turn school officials into "speech police."

    "I've never seen such a restriction on speech issued by a court or the government," Abbott said. "It seems like a trampling of the First Amendment rather than protecting the First Amendment."
    There it is in a nutshell folks. Why can't the naysayers figure out it's "let us pray" not "you must pray".
    The 21st century. The age of Smart phones and Stupid people.

    It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.
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  6. #6  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    The true clash here is not between the theist and the nontheist, but between the evangelical and the reticent. People who talk about Jesus all the time, who pray in public, who offer to pray for strangers or over things like car repairs are deemed "trashy" by devout people who believe that prayers are rightfully spoken outloud at family dinners and in churches, as well as by children at bedtime. All others (lottery tickets, tests, traffic citations) are prayed under ones breath.
    No, the clash is between the militant theophobe and everybody else. One kid sued the school because his/her tender ears couldn't bear to hear the word "Jesus" in a public setting. That's not reticence, that's abject horror on the part of that kid, who clearly has control issues and a fear of the faith of others. I recently had to explain to my daughter that while it's okay not to believe, it's not okay to rub other people's noses in it, and she shouldn't pick arguments with believers, not because they are wrong or right, but because in a republic, we tolerate the beliefs of others that do not infringe on our own rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Seriously, if America had known that the Civil Rights Movement was going to unleash the poor white trash as well, it never would have happened.
    Your arrogance is as amusing as it is unwarranted. Centuries of inbreeding with other snobs has not made you superior, no matter how much you may want to believe that it has. Get over yourself and take that silver spoon out of whatever orifice you have it in.
    --Odysseus
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member DumbAss Tanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Your arrogance is as amusing as it is unwarranted. Centuries of inbreeding with other snobs has not made you superior, no matter how much you may want to believe that it has. Get over yourself and take that silver spoon out of whatever orifice you have it in.
    It does have an excellent chance of his descendants having more fingers than ours, though, I have to give him that.
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  8. #8  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    It does have an excellent chance of his descendants having more fingers than ours, though, I have to give him that.
    And being better swimmers, what with the webbing between them.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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