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06-03-2012, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by ThinkingBig
These so-called American citizens and WWII Vets complaining about being mistakenly kicked off the voter rolls.... haven't they heard of taking one for the team?
To make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs, boys!!
Every Obama voter wrongly turned away at the polls is a vote for America and restoring our Democracy!!
06-03-2012, 11:26 PM
So, you favor allowing non-citizens to vote?
First off, Hispanics in Florida tend to be Cuban, who are more likely to vote Republican than any other ethnic group. Second, the disputed names are being reviewed in order to correct any possible disenfranchisement of legitimate voters. However, since you find this particularly onerous, perhaps you can suggest a more effective way to prevent ineligible persons from voting?These so-called American citizens and WWII Vets complaining about being mistakenly kicked off the voter rolls.... haven't they heard of taking one for the team?
To make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs, boys!!
Every Obama voter wrongly turned away at the polls is a vote for America and restoring our Democracy!!
06-04-2012, 12:03 AM
Absolutely not. And just to make sure, let's have the most over-reaching and overzealous purging of the polls. I mean, it's not like we're executing a innocent person. We're just preventing them from voting... just in case.
FAIL. (you seem to be good at that)First off, Hispanics in Florida tend to be Cuban, who are more likely to vote Republican than any other ethnic group. Second, the disputed names are being reviewed in order to correct any possible disenfranchisement of legitimate voters. However, since you find this particularly onerous, perhaps you can suggest a more effective way to prevent ineligible persons from voting?
is reading not your strong suit?
The state made a list and submitted it to counties. The letters instruct the voter to prove they are legal. Your statement "disputed names are being reviewed" is false. The legal voters are having to waste their time with some convoluted bureaucratic process--it's not even clear who they go to. In other words, they were betting the disenfranchised voter would be to dismayed and frustrated to go though the process.To spot noncitizens, though, the state began comparing voter rolls with a Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle database that contains some citizenship information that the agency collects when people get a state ID such as a driver’s license.
But the citizenship data in many cases is out of date. That is, many people become citizens after they get their ID and then register to vote. But the highway safety database isn’t updated.
As a result, the state has performed its own checking and double-checking and winnowed down a pool of 180,000 potential noncitizens to a list of about 2,700. It is asking the counties to contact the voters by mail. Those who don’t respond within about two months of being contacted could be stricken from the rolls.
As far as a suggestion: a) Do not violate federal law, numb nuts.
How many illegals have gone to the trouble to get a fake drivers licenses AND then registered to vote, giving their real name and address. This is a non-problem. This is Fox-fear fantasy problem. Bo-oooo, acorn is gonna get you, gonna get you. Please O'keef, come save us!!
Just because many citizens in FLA are goddamn retards that will let their state officials bugger them every which way, doesn't mean the rest of us can't see an obvious Karl Rovian dirty trick, poorly executed albeit.
Who said Arizona is the new Florida? The "In God We Trust" state still knows how to hedge their bets better than anyone.
06-04-2012, 12:18 AM
You're an ass, you know that? Before you condemn someone's reading skills, check your own there skippy....re-read your fucking quotes dipshit!Absolutely not. And just to make sure, let's have the most over-reaching and overzealous purging of the polls. I mean, it's not like we're executing a innocent person. We're just preventing them from voting... just in case.
FAIL. (you seem to be good at that)
is reading not your strong suit?
The state made a list and submitted it to counties. The letters instruct the voter to prove they are legal. Your statement "disputed names are being reviewed" is false. The legal voters are having to waste their time with some convoluted bureaucratic process--it's not even clear who they go to. In other words, they were betting the disenfranchised voter would be to dismayed and frustrated to go though the process.
As far as a suggestion: a) Do not violate federal law, numb nuts.
How many illegals have gone to the trouble to get a fake drivers licenses AND then registered to vote, giving their real name and address. This is a non-problem. This is Fox-fear fantasy problem. Bo-oooo, acorn is gonna get you, gonna get you. Please O'keef, come save us!!
Just because many citizens in FLA are goddamn retards that will let their state officials bugger them every which way, doesn't mean the rest of us can't see an obvious Karl Rovian dirty trick, poorly executed albeit.
Who said Arizona is the new Florida? The "In God We Trust" state still knows how to hedge their bets better than anyone.
06-04-2012, 12:42 AM
Hmm, I think Ody is going to be painting a new kill ring on the main gun of his debate tank.
06-04-2012, 10:35 AM
Except, of course, that we aren't. Florida is only seeking verification of specific individuals, whose status is in question. From the article, which it appears only one of us has read:
So far, Florida has flagged 2,700 potential noncitizen voters and sent the list to county elections supervisors, who have found the data and methodology to be flawed and problematic. The list of potential noncitizen voters – many of whom have turned out to be lawful citizens and voters – disproportionately hits minorities, especially Hispanics.Now, let's do the math. The Hispanic 13% of 11.3 million voters is 1,469,000 voters. The list of 2,700 potentially erroneous voters is 58% Hispanic, which means that Florida is looking at 1,566 voters, or 0.001066%. Hardly a mass attempt at disenfranchising Hispanics. And, let's remember that the purpose of the purge is to remove non-citizens from the rolls. The largest group of non-citizens in Florida is Hispanics, so they will naturally be over-represented in an investigation of citizenship status, just as descendants of the Mayflower passengers will be under-represented. It's not bias, it's logic (which is a form of bias, against stupidity, hence your objection to it).
About 58 percent of those flagged as potential noncitizens are Hispanics, Florida’s largest ethnic immigrant population, a Miami Herald analysis found. Hispanics make up 13 percent of the overall 11.3 million active registered voters.
See above.
The response is part of the review process. The voters respond with their documentation (no different than registering by mail), the state then reviews the response and either keeps them on the rolls or strikes them. This is the process. Admittedly, the state could go to the expense of sending agents to each home for the purpose of verifying their status in person, and save them the trouble of mailing an envelope, but even that could be construed as some sort of intimidation by those who oppose any attempt at maintaining voter integrity.
Now, let's discuss your reading skills. The article said nothing about betting that voters wouldn't go through the process. If anything, an eligible voter would be more motivated to respond, in order to keep his eligibility and participate in the process. The persons most likely not to respond are ineligible voters, who would want to avoid scrutiny of their false registrations. The article assumes, without evidence, that Democrats and independents would be most affected, but doesn't state the party affiliations of the 2,700 names. An odd omission, don't you think? And Obama is tanking among independents, so purging them would be counterproductive for Republicans.
Ooh, then you know the law, do you? Okay, let's look at it. http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/vot/42usc/subch_ih.php
This section is referred to in sections 1973gg-1, 1973gg-2, 1973gg-6 of this title.Nothing in this act or the 1965 Voting Rights Act is violated by an attempt to get voters to respond to a mail request for updates on their status. Fail, Spicoli.
Sec. 1973gg-6 Requirements with respect to administration of voter registration
(a) In general
In the administration of voter registration for elections for Federal office, each State shall -
(1) ensure that any eligible applicant is registered to vote in an election -
>snip<
(3) provide that the name of a registrant may not be removed from the official list of eligible voters except -
(A) at the request of the registrant;(4) conduct a general program that makes a reasonable effort to remove the names of ineligible voters from the official lists of eligible voters by reason of -
(B) as provided by State law, by reason of criminal conviction or mental incapacity; or
(C) as provided under paragraph (4);
(A) the death of the registrant; or>snip<
(B) a change in the residence of the registrant, in accordance with subsections (b), (c), and (d) of this section;
(b) Confirmation of voter registration
Any State program or activity to protect the integrity of the electoral process by ensuring the maintenance of an accurate and current voter registration roll for elections for Federal office -
(1) shall be uniform, nondiscriminatory, and in compliance with the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C. 1973 et seq.); and
(2) shall not result in the removal of the name of any person from the official list of voters registered to vote in an election for Federal office by reason of the person's failure to vote, except that nothing in this paragraph may be construed to prohibit a State from using the procedures described in subsections (c) and (d) of this section to remove an individual from the official list of eligible voters if the individual -(A) has not either notified the applicable registrar (in person or in writing) or responded during the period described in subparagraph (B) to the notice sent by the applicable registrar; and then (B) has not voted or appeared to vote in 2 or more consecutive general elections for Federal office.(c) Voter removal programs
(1) A State may meet the requirement of subsection (a)(4) of this section by establishing a program under which -
(A) change-of-address information supplied by the Postal Service through its licensees is used to identify registrants whose addresses may have changed; and
(B) if it appears from information provided by the Postal Service that -
(i) a registrant has moved to a different residence address in the same registrar's jurisdiction in which the registrant is currently registered, the registrar changes the registration records to show the new address and sends the registrant a notice of the change by forwardable mail and a postage prepaid pre-addressed return form by which the registrant may verify or correct the address information; or(2)(A) A State shall complete, not later than 90 days prior to the date of a primary or general election for Federal office, any program the purpose of which is to systematically remove the names of ineligible voters from the official lists of eligible voters.
(ii) the registrant has moved to a different residence address not in the same registrar's jurisdiction, the registrar uses the notice procedure described in subsection (d)(2) of this section to confirm the change of address.
Well, since you asked:
TOP NEWSSo, this whole thing could have been avoided (or at least significantly reduced) if the Obama administration had permitted Florida to compare its voter registration rolls with the immigration database. One would think that the DHS would want to ensure that legally registered citizens were not inconvenienced by having to mail in a form, wouldn't you?
Florida says 180,000 non-citizens may be on voter rolls
Fri, May 11 17:02 PM EDT
By Kevin Gray
MIAMI (Reuters) - Florida election authorities are examining about 180,000 people who they say may not be U.S. citizens but are registered to vote in the state, an official said on Friday.
State officials are updating Florida's voter rolls ahead of the U.S. presidential election in November. Florida is home to a large Latino population and is expected to be a critical swing state in the contest between Democratic President Barack Obama and presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney.
Florida's Division of Elections said it is checking the citizenship of voters by comparing its databases with those of the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, which keeps track of whether a licensed driver is also a U.S. citizen.
Similar efforts have been carried out by state authorities in Colorado and New Mexico, which also have large Latino communities.
"We're going to vet a list of 180,000 people to try to come up with a real number," said Chris Cate, a spokesman for Florida's Division of Elections. "We don't want to jump to conclusions without a thorough investigation."
Officials in Florida have so far identified more than 2,600 potential voters who may not be U.S. citizens and sent their information to local election authorities, Cate said.
Drivers in Florida are required to show proof of their legal status when they get a driver's license or renew an old one.
Cate said cross-referencing voter rolls with the highway department information could help better determine whether voters are U.S. citizens, but he added the information was sometimes incomplete.
"Their last contact with the highway department may have been four or five years ago and they could have had the chance to become a citizen since then," he said.
Potential non-citizen voters are notified by mail and given 30 days to respond.
Nearly 1,600 of the voters identified up until now reside in Miami-Dade County, Florida's most populous county, which includes the city of Miami.
Cate said some Florida officials have asked the Obama administration to grant the state access to databases maintained by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to help determine who is a citizen.
"We've been requesting access, but have so far been denied," he said.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...20511?irpc=932
Wow. Nice rhetorical flourishes there. Utterly false and idiotic, mind you, but still impressive in a kind of monkey-flinging-feces sort of way. Let me know when you can research your opinion and provide some facts.Just because many citizens in FLA are goddamn retards that will let their state officials bugger them every which way, doesn't mean the rest of us can't see an obvious Karl Rovian dirty trick, poorly executed albeit.
Who said Arizona is the new Florida? The "In God We Trust" state still knows how to hedge their bets better than anyone.
06-04-2012, 10:38 AM
Oh, almost forgot. This isn't a suggestion so much as an evasion at one. I will ask again: What specific steps would you implement to ensure that non-citizens are not permitted to vote?
06-04-2012, 10:47 AM
It looks like Tinklingbig has some questions to answer before he spams the rest of the board.
06-05-2012, 12:11 AM
This is really quite odd, Mr. Big mocked Ody's reading and comprehension skills yet he himself fails to give a coherent response to Ody's questions.
06-05-2012, 12:45 AM
Um... okay.
Reading is fun, friend.
Let's review the article posted and conveniently linked to in the OP, shall we:
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/31/2826708/feds-demand-florida-cease-its.html#storylink=cpyFlorida’s effort appears to violate both the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which protects minorities, and the 1993 National Voter Registration Act – which governs voter purges – T. Christian Herren Jr., the Justice Department’s lead civil rights lawyer, wrote in a detailed two-page letter sent late Thursday night.
State officials said they were reviewing the letter. But they indicated they might fight DOJ over its interpretation of federal law and expressed frustration that President Barack Obama’s administration has stonewalled the state’s noncitizen voter hunt for nine months.
I've included this handy-dandy link above for your clicking pleasure.
So, like said when I answered you the first time: A) Do not violate federal law. As it appears they were attempting to do.
I mean, you have to admit it's funny that the "In God We Trust" state doesn't really trust the voters to make the Right decision.DOJ’s written demand came hours after the agency refused to comment on the matter to The Miami Herald. It also followed a federal court ruling Thursday that struck down a Republican voter-registration law that a judge found too onerous.
So far, Florida has flagged 2,700 potential noncitizen voters and sent the list to county elections supervisors, who have found the data and methodology to be flawed and problematic. The list of potential noncitizen voters – many of whom have turned out to be lawful citizens and voters – disproportionately hits minorities, especially Hispanics.
About 58 percent of those flagged as potential noncitizens are Hispanics, Florida’s largest ethnic immigrant population, a Miami Herald analysis found. Hispanics make up 13 percent of the overall 11.3 million active registered voters.
Independent voters and Democrats are the most likely to face being purged from the rolls. Republicans and non-Hispanic whites are the least likely.
Under the Voting Rights Act, Florida needs federal approval before it makes changes to voting because five Florida counties – Monroe, Hillsborough, Collier, Hardee and Hendry – had minority-voting troubles decades ago
"Our records do not reflect that these changes affecting voting have been submitted to the United States District Court for the District of Columbia for judicial review or to the Attorney General for administrative review as required by Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act," Herren wrote.
"Accordingly, it is necessary that they either be brought before that court or submitted to the Attorney General for a determination that they neither have the purpose nor will have the effect of discriminating on account of race, color, or membership in a language minority group under Section 5."
Now, since you seem interested in getting the facts straight in your head, let me help further on your quest. These Florida corruption stories are like onions, you peel back a few layers and BINGO:
Florida Official Behind Gov. Rick Scott's Voter Purge Linked to $1 Billion Campaign Effort Against Obama
The plan for the purge, according to a story from the Associated Press, was initiated last year by then-Secretary of State Kurt Browning after a meeting with the governor. Browning said he was motivated by a "Spidey sense tingling" to undergo a massive project to develop the list now being used to send letters to registered Florida voters informing them that they have been flagged as non-citizens. Although both Gov. Scott and Browning have downplayed accusations that the purge is political, a donation from a secret money group may fuel growing suspicions that the effort is partisan.
Just before Browning was selected in 2011 by Scott as Secretary of State, Browning led a group called "Protect Your Vote Inc," which was set up to oppose fair redistricting. One of the biggest checks to Browning's organization came from the Center to Protect Patients' Rights, which gave $100,000 in 2010. At the time of the donation, the source of the money was shrouded in secrecy. View a screen shot of the disclosure:
But as Republic Report exclusively reported last month, the Center to Protect Patients' Rights is part of a universe of front groups financed by David and Charles Koch, the petrochemical billionaires, as well as several other billionaires, as part of an election-influencing effort. New reports this week about the brothers' strategy indicate that they will now use this constellation of front groups to finance $400 million of a $1 billion campaign in outside money to defeat President Obama and congressional Democrats. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Mitt Romney's Super PAC, and several nonprofits controlled by Karl Rove, will furnish the other $600 million.
Now, if George Soros money when to purging West Virginia ballots of people likely to vote Republican, don't tell me Sean Hannity wouldn't be sending O'Keef in dressed like Nun to do some crack reporting.
Okay, so they want to prevent 'voter fraud' and Acornism, I guess. But where is the massive conspiracy the oh so brave (and well paid) Sec of State wanted to prevent. Let's dig further:
Hispanics, Democrats biggest groups on Florida's list of potential noncitizen voters, analysis shows
Fair enough, who tipped you off??"The Department of State has a duty under both state and federal laws to ensure that the voter registration rolls are current and accurate by conducting list maintenance," said Chris Cate, spokesman for Secretary of State Ken Detzner's agency, which oversees the elections division.
"If we receive credible and reliable information, we must act on it," Cate said. "Race or party never factor into the process. Our focus is on identifying and removing ineligible voters from the rolls because that's our job."
**crickets**
Wait, wait, I think I know.
The plan for the purge, according to a story from the Associated Press, was initiated last year by then-Secretary of State Kurt Browning after a meeting with the governor. Browning said he was motivated by a "Spidey sense tingling" to undergo a massive project to develop the list now being used to send letters to registered Florida voters informing them that they have been flagged as non-citizens.
In this case, Florida went looking for potential noncitizen voters, following the lead of Republican secretaries of state in Colorado and New Mexico — two other Hispanic-heavy swing states this election year.
Florida elections officials compared information from the state's mammoth voter rolls with a Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles database that began collecting citizenship information relatively recently.
Many people register to vote at driver's license offices under the so-called "motor-voter" law. There's a chance that some noncitizens who get a license mistakenly fill out a voter-registration card. Some may willingly ignore the law that restricts Florida voting to U.S. citizens who are state residents.
Other noncitizens don't register to vote when they get their license. However, when those people become citizens, no one notifies the state.
So when the elections department compares the voter rolls with the highway safety database, there's a good chance that the citizenship information is out of date for some.
You know, it wasn't fair for me to call this Karl Rovian; he would have never got caught. This was so asinine.
How did they think they were going to get a way with this? -- That's my question to you.
And, if we don't study history, we are doomed to repeat it, no?
Don't these things always start with a 'LIST' and next comes the 'Checking of your papers' and lastly..well, you know.
Bottom line, Florida can check out information, tip, leads re: voting irregularity, but they just can't go 'purging' the rolls without following the procedure outlined in the two federal voter acts noted in the article.
Is that clear?
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