Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1 If, as liberals claim, health care is "a human right" 
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,468
    then why do we have to pay for it? Why is it being forced on us under penalty of fine or imprisonment? If I don't exercise my right to free speech, do I get penalized? How about if I don't go to church? Or don't publish my opinions? Or don't own a gun? And why aren't we being "taxed" to provide for other people's rights of speech, religion, press and gun ownership?

    Even with health insurance, there are still some things I have to pay out of pocket for. If health care is "a human right," does that mean I can demand any sort of procedure -- no matter how expensive -- and not have to pay for it?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubie View Post
    then why do we have to pay for it? Why is it being forced on us under penalty of fine or imprisonment? If I don't exercise my right to free speech, do I get penalized? How about if I don't go to church? Or don't publish my opinions? Or don't own a gun? And why aren't we being "taxed" to provide for other people's rights of speech, religion, press and gun ownership?

    Even with health insurance, there are still some things I have to pay out of pocket for. If health care is "a human right," does that mean I can demand any sort of procedure -- no matter how expensive -- and not have to pay for it?

    Here, let Mitt Romney explain it to you. It's about personal responsibility.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,468
    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingBig View Post
    Exactly as I've come to expect you to respond. Fuck you.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Western MI
    Posts
    2,360
    It seems to me, even though I disagree with obamacare, romneycare or any semblence of the 2, it's apples and oranges. Romney was pushing for it for his state. States have the right to do whatever they want within reason, and if the people don't want it they either vote it out or vote in a new governor, state congress etc.

    The thing I like about being a federalist is, if you don't like things your state does, you can move to a state that better agrees with your conscience.

    Obamacare is a federal program, and the remedy at this point is the same. Vote him out and get more conservatives in congress. Problem is if you're unsuccessful in a repeal and want to move, you have to leave the country with this federal monstrosity.
    Good men sleep peaceably in their beds at night because
    rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.



    Real superheroes don't wear capes. They wear dog tags.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    13,094
    I'm not sure I would call it a human right.


    I think that doctors and hospitals should never turn away a sick person because that person has no money. Medicine and health care have become very profitable businesses and many of those currently working in that field have forgotten the roots of many hospitals and clinics as charitable organizations.

    My sister has a chronic health condition, and she owes thousands in hospital bills. Her health care provider is a Catholic hospital, and she is thankful for that, because this particular hospital's staff have not forgotten their roots. She said they told her as long as she makes a monthly payment that she can afford, they won't consider her to be delinquent in her payments.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member MrsSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,393
    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I'm not sure I would call it a human right.


    I think that doctors and hospitals should never turn away a sick person because that person has no money. Medicine and health care have become very profitable businesses and many of those currently working in that field have forgotten the roots of many hospitals and clinics as charitable organizations.

    My sister has a chronic health condition, and she owes thousands in hospital bills. Her health care provider is a Catholic hospital, and she is thankful for that, because this particular hospital's staff have not forgotten their roots. She said they told her as long as she makes a monthly payment that she can afford, they won't consider her to be delinquent in her payments.
    A very few for-profit medical places do make an actual profit. Many of them do so by cutting corners and providing barely-acceptable care to Medicare patients, others do it by providing care to self-payers with money.

    My particular not-for-profit hospital does clear a small "margin" most years, our goal is 6% but our reality is usually about 2%. We support 4 outlying rural hospitals and several clinics,a couple of which make a small profit, but most of which lose money every year. We belong to a much larger Catholic healthcare organization which loses money every year. They lose less money than some of the other area organizations, and have even been asked to take over the finances of a couple of places that were tanking and try to bring them back to only a NEGATIVE 3% or better.

    When things are really tight, they will lay-off if they see no other answer, but generally freeze wage increases and spending. When things get better, we have the opportunity to request replacement equipment instead of trying to limp things along that are just not worth the repair anymore.

    The vast majority of healthcare facilities are in the same condition. All not-for-profit organizations MUST treat anyone that enters the facility, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay. Our dialysis unit has even treated a few patients for years that had no insurance and no money.

    Our government has imposed immense and wasteful regulations upon all healthcare facilities (except abortion clinics). We are burdened by senseless rules written more to bolster someone's career than to guarantee patient safety. In just the last decade, I've personally seen the government impose a requirement on dialysis clinics that costs us $2000 a month but has not changed one iota on the results of the testing we do. To be specific, we now do a cleaning procedure monthly that we used to do annually with no difference in the monthly test results. But we do the labor and spend the money because someone in the government has the ability to impose this rule.

    This is true in every area of healthcare. I have seen the same thing over and over, what could be a somewhat profitable area (with a margin of maybe 3%), is hit by new regulations that add nothing to safety, but do cut the margin to 0% or worse.

    I don't know where you got the idea that healthcare is very profitable, but you didn't get it by being in healthcare.
    -
    -
    -

    In actual dollars, President Obama’s $4.4 trillion in deficit spending in just three years is 37 percent higher than the previous record of $3.2 trillion (held by President George W. Bush) in deficit spending for an entire presidency. It’s no small feat to demolish an 8-year record in just 3 years.

    Under Obama’s own projections, interest payments on the debt are on course to triple from 2010 (his first budgetary year) to 2018, climbing from $196 billion to $685 billion annually.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Fabulous Poster
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    10,161
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubie View Post
    then why do we have to pay for it? Why is it being forced on us under penalty of fine or imprisonment? If I don't exercise my right to free speech, do I get penalized? How about if I don't go to church? Or don't publish my opinions? Or don't own a gun? And why aren't we being "taxed" to provide for other people's rights of speech, religion, press and gun ownership?

    Even with health insurance, there are still some things I have to pay out of pocket for. If health care is "a human right," does that mean I can demand any sort of procedure -- no matter how expensive -- and not have to pay for it?
    You and Luis Gutierrez have a lot in common.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member Chuck58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    New Mexico USA
    Posts
    990
    Romneycare is state. The states can mandate such a thing, or so I understand - if the legislators have the guts. In Massachusetts, the people are conditioned to accept anything from Boston. In other states, they'd be lynched if they tried.

    Obamacare is Federal, a blanket, one size fits all insurance that doesn't take into consideration the situations in various states, such as income.

    That's the difference, and that's what Romney has said. He would give it back to the states and let them institute healthcare, or not, as they choose.
    The poster formerly known as chuck58 on the old board.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16,646
    Health care is a human right then what's next? When does owning a home become a human right? Where does it stop?
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Western MI
    Posts
    2,360
    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Health care is a human right then what's next? When does owning a home become a human right? Where does it stop?
    I believe that's what Fannie and Freddie tried to do. With disastrous results.
    Good men sleep peaceably in their beds at night because
    rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.



    Real superheroes don't wear capes. They wear dog tags.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •