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  1. #51  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    links for what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Homosexuality has been a felony for most of the history of this country.
    Homosexuals have been denied education, employment, and housing.
    Homosexuals have been (and are still) a target of discrimination and violence.
    Homosexuals have been extorted by the police as individuals and businesses.
    Homosexuals have been (and still are) targeted by the police for selective enforcement and with intimidation tactics.
    Homosexuals continue to be treated differently and unequally under the laws of the federal, state, and local governments in regards to marriage, taxes, and benefits.

    The fact that the gay rights movement has been successful in reducing some of these things is not evidence that they never existed or that the kind of people who practiced and promoted these violations would not gladly return to the good old days that they openly and unapologetically lament in their passing.

    Nobody turned fire hoses on Orientals and Jews either - but that doesn't mean there weren't civil rights violations there. Where did the Constitution say that Jews and Orientals had a right to buy a house in Chevy Chase? It doesn't. It says that they have a right to equal protection under the law.
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    You can't support these claims.
    We've got your own words right here that highlight your intolerance and bigotry.
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  3. #53  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    That's why we have Columbus Day.
    Which is subjected to exactly the same kinds of protests that Luke was describing. Elizabeth Warren's people have been trying to ban Columbus Day for years, and successfully kept the 500th anniversary of the discovery of America from being celebrated as it ought to have been (1992 was a particularly low key Columbus Day).

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    The ruling predates the change (with huge Mormon support) to the Hawaii constitution.
    It doesn't really matter what the Mormons said or did, since they are not the majority in the state. The law passed because the judge's ruling defied common sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I'm aware of the sequence of events. The amendment to the Hawaii constitution doesn't alter the fact that the court found that the state had failed to prove a compelling state interest. The change to the constitution made the suit moot. None of which will matter when the USSC finds such laws to be unconstitutional.
    That doesn't mean that the previous law was discriminatory. Demanding that the state sanction alternatives to marriage and then screaming discrimination when it declines to do so doesn't make this a civil rights issue. There is no compelling state interest to define lots of things that have existed for millenia, simply because they are self-evident. The judge imposed his bias for the law, so that people like you would laud his "intelligence" and so that he could pat himself on the back, but there is nothing in the law that forbids gay marriage. You can get married in any church that will have you, but you are demanding legal sanction, which means that you are demanding that the majority of the legislature and the voters approve of your marriage, and when they demonstrate that they don't, you scream bigotry and demand that a single judge throw out the law. Thanks to rulings like this, the laws of the land are now arbitrarily stricken when a judge decides that his personal biases are more important than the right of the people to govern themselves. There is no end to the mischief that this issue is creating, both in terms of societal decay and legal anarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeEDay View Post
    One, Columbus was Spanish. And two, you either totally ignored my point, or do not get it.
    Uh, Columbus was Italian. He sailed for Spain because they were willing to finance his trip.
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  4. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post

    Uh, Columbus was Italian. He sailed for Spain because they were willing to finance his trip.
    Actually he's Genoese. Semantics I know but just saying.
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  5. #55  
    Senior Member LukeEDay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Uh, Columbus was Italian. He sailed for Spain because they were willing to finance his trip.
    I know, I got confused with where he sailed from and where is was from for a second. That happens some times...

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  6. #56  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Actually he's Genoese. Semantics I know but just saying.
    Which was in Italy. But, it was an independent city at the time, so you are correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by LukeEDay View Post
    I know, I got confused with where he sailed from and where is was from for a second. That happens some times...
    It's okay. Obama still thinks that there are 57 states.
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  7. #57  
    Senior Member LukeEDay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    It's okay. Obama still thinks that there are 57 states.
    Isn't that the truth. I wonder if he visited them all yet?

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  8. #58  
    Senior Member Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Homosexuality has been a felony for most of the history of this country.
    Homosexuals have been denied education, employment, and housing.
    Homosexuals have been (and are still) a target of discrimination and violence.
    Homosexuals have been extorted by the police as individuals and businesses.
    Homosexuals have been (and still are) targeted by the police for selective enforcement and with intimidation tactics.
    Homosexuals continue to be treated differently and unequally under the laws of the federal, state, and local governments in regards to marriage, taxes, and benefits.
    I guess these claims are bullshit....a normal person would provide links to claims they make to back up what they post with verifiable facts. Then again we know Nova is nothing but a drama queen in the first place, all BS over substance, so it's no surprise he'd run like a coward when challenged.
    Last edited by Zathras; 08-08-2012 at 04:03 PM.
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  9. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
    I guess these claims are bullshit....a normal person would provide links to claims they make to back up what they post with verifiable facts. Then again we know Nova is nothing but a drama queen in the first place, all BS over substance, so it's no surprise he'd run like a coward when chalenged.
    The only court case I'm particularly familiar with is Lawrence v. Texas. But sodomy (even heterosexual oral sex) was banned in some states until 2003. Reason being that sodomy laws were conveniently used selectively to persecute gays (what was happening in the privacy of their bedroom in their home mind you), if not to gain an actual conviction, then to legally harass. Texas was interesting because gays and heterosexuals were treated differently, which the court ruled violated the 14th. Sexual privacy had already been established as a right in the 1960s and 1970s

    But you really have to put this in context. Until 1972, cops could legally bust down your bedroom door on suspicion of having sex with someone you weren't married to (two consenting adults of different genders). I don't think gays were being particularly singled out; really it was about a loosely defined sense of sexual morality clashing with the 1960s counter culture. Thing is, once straight people won the sexual privacy right the 14th implied it also held for gays.
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  10. #60  
    Senior Member Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00 View Post
    The only court case I'm particularly familiar with is Lawrence v. Texas. But sodomy (even heterosexual oral sex) was banned in some states until 2003. Reason being that sodomy laws were conveniently used selectively to persecute gays (what was happening in the privacy of their bedroom in their home mind you), if not to gain an actual conviction, then to legally harass. Texas was interesting because gays and heterosexuals were treated differently, which the court ruled violated the 14th. Sexual privacy had already been established as a right in the 1960s and 1970s

    But you really have to put this in context. Until 1972, cops could legally bust down your bedroom door on suspicion of having sex with someone you weren't married to (two consenting adults of different genders). I don't think gays were being particularly singled out; really it was about a loosely defined sense of sexual morality clashing with the 1960s counter culture. Thing is, once straight people won the sexual privacy right the 14th implied it also held for gays.
    I knew about the Texas case but it should be up to the person making the claims (Novaheart) to back up claims they make with links to prove what they post is true. Nova hasn't done this with the claims he made despite people asking him to do so and, in fact, has run away from this thread after being challenged on what he posted.
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