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  1. #21  
    Senior Member LukeEDay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck58 View Post
    There's this little thing I found in a different article about the violence. Didn't bookmark or save the url.

    Ibrahim said extra brutality is reserved for Christians, but the crucifixions are because of Islamic doctrine and are required by the Quran.
    Anyone who tries to tell me that Islam is a religion of peace will be kicked. Someone needs to slap those uneducated morons into reality.

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  2. #22  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Yeah no shit...suddenly you and I don't seem as hysterical about our warnings to people do we?
    Funny thing about that. Churchill warned the world about the Nazis throughout the 1930s, and was made Prime Minister after the people who had refused to listen to him were discredited. Then, after he had guided Britain through WWII, the Brits voted him out and replaced him with Clement Atlee, who had been one of the worst appeasers and peaceniks prior to the war.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    All I can say is Israel kick some ass!

    Keep in mind the original Egyptian government (also persecutive) was more secular. The Imam I spoke to last year said he believed that Islam (as it was supposed to be) would be a more peaceful and fair form of government. If his view reflected the views of the majority of Egyptians, then I would think they probably did vote this in.
    The Imam that you spoke to probably believes that crucifixion of infidels is fair. He also lied about the peaceful part. Islam isn't simply a religion. It's a totalitarian political structure that uses religion as a means of expansion. Mohammed got nowhere as a preacher, but when he began killing his opponents, stealing their property and dividing up their women among his followers, his cult became a major force. The lesson that subsequent generations of caliphs gleaned from this is that war is lucrative and infidels exist to be plundered and enslaved, and those who spread confusion (i.e., refuse to be plundered and enslaved) must be made an example of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I notice this is the Muslim Brotherhood behind this. Same group that attacks Israel. I also notice that Iraq, who also voted for an Islamic government isn't having this problem. What are your thoughts about that?
    Iraq is having his problem. Iraqi Christians have been fleeing the country en masse.

    Christians fleeing Iraq

    WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14, 2012
    Sectarian violence targeting Christians in Iraq has caused hundreds of thousands of them to flee their homes and homeland since 2003, when the U.S.-led invasion ousted Saddam Hussein. According to international estimates, Iraq’s prewar Christian population of between 800,000 and 1.4 million has dwindled to fewer than 500,000. Their numbers continue to decline: frightened by assassinations and bombings, Christians are fleeing safe havens where they once sought refuge in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq.
    Christian-owned liquor stores have been the target of arson attacks, a Christian businessman was kidnapped in the Kurdistan capital of Erbil and several others gunned down in another village, the New York Times reported.
    Many of Kurdistan’s Christian population gave up homes and possessions to seek safety there after an October 2010 suicide attack on a Christian church in Baghdad killed more than 50 people. Yet they face intimidation, bombings and threats in the north. The International Organization for Migration has been tracking 1,350 displaced Christian families in northern Iraq. In January, it said that 850 of them had left in the prior year.
    The Kurdish government offers assistance such as land and free fuel, and Christians are allotted seats on local governing councils as well as in parliament in Kurdistan and Baghdad. But that is not enough for those such as Walid Shamoon, who gave up a $1,500-a-month job at the Australian Embassy to flee Baghdad in January 1011 after an attempt on his life. “This is not a life. There is no improvement. There is no work,” he said. He wants to emigrate to Arizona.
    The withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq has also removed some of the protection for religious minorities. Security, though, is not the only reason for the exodus: it is driven also by a lack of work and poor living conditions.
    In a recent report, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom said, “The consequence of this flight may be the end of Christianity in Iraq.” As Christians flee, Iraq is losing part of its spiritual and cultural heritage
    .


    This is typical of Islamic governance. In every country where Sharia law has been adopted, religious minorities end up persecuted out of existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    What about the fact that Egypt has a long history of persecution. Know that pic of the pyramids somebody presented in another thread where Obama said "You didn't build that?" First thing I wanted to say to that was "No, they didn't build that. Jewish slaves probably did." So what was the reason for their behavior then? It just seems like no matter what government they have, it's bad.

    In that case, I'll visit a mosque very soon. I want Sam. lol.
    Egypt wasn't always a backward hellhole. After the rise of Christianity, Alexandria became one of the great centers of knowledge in the world. The Muslim conquest destroyed that heritage (deliberately) and subjected Egypt to centuries of stagnation and violence.

    Again, this was completely predictable to anyone who knew the history of Islam and its interactions with any other culture. The sad thing is that anyone in the State Department who would have been willing to say this would have been fired on the spot.
    --Odysseus
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member Chuck58's Avatar
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    That's right. It's happening in Iraq as well. There's a Dutch report of Christians being crucified. Tied to trees with ropes, then nailed and the ropes set afire. The report I saw mentioned the poster seeing one victim who survived and viewing the nail holes in his wrists.

    If this is the Arab Spring, I wonder what the Arab Winter will bring?
    The poster formerly known as chuck58 on the old board.
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  4. #24  
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    It truly amazes me that in this day & age, in the 21st century, that human beings still act this way, that they decide to make every one else's lives a living hell because of something some goddam books says. Bunch of fucking unenlightened, unevolved, barbaric neanderthals.

    Meanwhile in America, we like to bitch about tax returns and chicken sandwiches.
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  5. #25  
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    Wow! O Blow Hard must be pleased. He actually had a hand in bridging Christianity and izlam.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    I notice this is the Muslim Brotherhood behind this. Same group that attacks Israel. I also notice that Iraq, who also voted for an Islamic government isn't having this problem. What are your thoughts about that?
    My thoughts? That again you're tragically misinformed...but then that's par for the course.

    Iraq is having violence problems. Have you not read the papers lately?

    Wave of attacks rumbles across Iraq, killing 59

    BAGHDAD—Insurgents in Iraq unleashed a relentless wave of attacks from before dawn until late at night Thursday, killing 59 people and wounding many more in a deadly show of force aimed at undermining the government's authority.

    The bomb and shooting attacks made for the country's deadliest day in more than three weeks, rattling nerves as families prepared to gather for a holiday weekend. More than 150 people have been killed in violence across the country since the start of August, showing that insurgents led by al-Qaida's Iraqi franchise remain a lethal force eight months after the last U.S. troops left the country.

    Five of the attacks accounted for more than half of the casualties.

    A morning car bomb in Baghdad's northeastern and mostly Shiite neighborhood of Husseiniyah killed seven people and wounded 31.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...jure-25-others

    That's just the most recent...from two days ago. But you keep thinking that there's no problem in Iraq.

    Not to mention that the Caledonian Christians have been persecuted almost into extinction in Baghdad.

    8/16/2012 Iraq (Opposing Views) – Mosul is now one of the most violent cities in Iraq with Christians and other minorities often targets of the violence.

    As a result, thousands of Christians have left the Iraqi city since 2003 when U.S. forces deposed Saddam Hussein. The war triggered a wave of continuous violence in the second largest city in Iraq.

    Before 2003, Mosul was home to 75,000 Christians. Approximately 70 percent belonged to the Chaldean Church, while the rest were Syriac Orthodox and Catholic. Now approximately 25,000 Christians live in Mosul, which has a population of 2 million. Many more Christians live in the surrounding Nineveh province.

    Dr. Carl Moeller, Open Doors USA President/CEO, labels the attacks against Christians in Mosul and all of Iraq as "religicide." He states: "Christians in cities like Baghdad and Mosul are gripped by terrorism. They are fleeing in droves. Today it was reported that at least 20 people died in blasts and shootings across the country.

    "With the spotlight currently on Syria, Nigeria and Afghanistan and the pullout of U.S. troops from Iraq last December, Iraq has been placed on the back-burner. But we as Christians in the West must continue to pray for our brothers and sisters in Iraq, who face extinction if we don't pray and advocate for them."
    http://www.persecution.org/2012/08/1...e-to-violence/



    What about the fact that Egypt has a long history of persecution. Know that pic of the pyramids somebody presented in another thread where Obama said "You didn't build that?" First thing I wanted to say to that was "No, they didn't build that. Jewish slaves probably did." So what was the reason for their behavior then?
    Why is it that you Libs always insist on going back 200-300 years to justify your misguided point? Why can't you deal in the here and now?


    It just seems like no matter what government they have, it's bad.
    That totally ignores the peace and stability Egypt helped bring to the region since the mid 70's. Anwar Sadat was killed by Muslim extremists because he made peace with Israel. His successor Hosni Mubarak continued what Sadat started. With Obama turning a blind eye to what was happening in Egypt...he's managed to destabilize the region and bring us that much closer to confrontation with a unified radical alliance in the Muslim world against anyone that's not Muslim.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
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    To be fair to Lanie, the MSM doesn't cover Iraq death by death like they did when Dubya was in charge. I'm surprised Afghanistan is getting any ink at all.

    Just saw breaking news (AP) that another US troop was killed in Afghanistan by an Afghan trainee. It's happening a lot.

    Us leaving Iraq gave way to the freedom to kill non-muslims unfettered.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The Imam that you spoke to probably believes that crucifixion of infidels is fair. He also lied about the peaceful part. Islam isn't simply a religion. It's a totalitarian political structure that uses religion as a means of expansion. Mohammed got nowhere as a preacher, but when he began killing his opponents, stealing their property and dividing up their women among his followers, his cult became a major force. The lesson that subsequent generations of caliphs gleaned from this is that war is lucrative and infidels exist to be plundered and enslaved, and those who spread confusion (i.e., refuse to be plundered and enslaved) must be made an example of.
    Sigh. So any Muslim who says that murder is wrong and that we should live in peace with other religions is lying? Give me a break.

    This guy told me about how things started going bad when they took prayer out of schools. I reminded him it was Christian prayers that got taken out. He suggested that schools have students divide up into groups according to religion so they could pray and study. It was all a lie? Really? Why do extremists like the Muslim Brotherhood get to speak for all Muslims?



    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Iraq is having his problem. Iraqi Christians have been fleeing the country en masse.

    Christians fleeing Iraq

    WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14, 2012
    Sectarian violence targeting Christians in Iraq has caused hundreds of thousands of them to flee their homes and homeland since 2003, when the U.S.-led invasion ousted Saddam Hussein. According to international estimates, Iraq’s prewar Christian population of between 800,000 and 1.4 million has dwindled to fewer than 500,000. Their numbers continue to decline: frightened by assassinations and bombings, Christians are fleeing safe havens where they once sought refuge in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq.
    Christian-owned liquor stores have been the target of arson attacks, a Christian businessman was kidnapped in the Kurdistan capital of Erbil and several others gunned down in another village, the New York Times reported.
    Many of Kurdistan’s Christian population gave up homes and possessions to seek safety there after an October 2010 suicide attack on a Christian church in Baghdad killed more than 50 people. Yet they face intimidation, bombings and threats in the north. The International Organization for Migration has been tracking 1,350 displaced Christian families in northern Iraq. In January, it said that 850 of them had left in the prior year.
    The Kurdish government offers assistance such as land and free fuel, and Christians are allotted seats on local governing councils as well as in parliament in Kurdistan and Baghdad. But that is not enough for those such as Walid Shamoon, who gave up a $1,500-a-month job at the Australian Embassy to flee Baghdad in January 1011 after an attempt on his life. “This is not a life. There is no improvement. There is no work,” he said. He wants to emigrate to Arizona.
    The withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq has also removed some of the protection for religious minorities. Security, though, is not the only reason for the exodus: it is driven also by a lack of work and poor living conditions.
    In a recent report, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom said, “The consequence of this flight may be the end of Christianity in Iraq.” As Christians flee, Iraq is losing part of its spiritual and cultural heritage
    .


    This is typical of Islamic governance. In every country where Sharia law has been adopted, religious minorities end up persecuted out of existence.
    Thanks for the link. It looks like terrorists, not the Iraqi government is doing this. Kurdish government? I must be missing something. I do think it's possible that those in the Iraqi government might be turning a blind eye, but we don't know that for certain.



    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Egypt wasn't always a backward hellhole. After the rise of Christianity, Alexandria became one of the great centers of knowledge in the world. The Muslim conquest destroyed that heritage (deliberately) and subjected Egypt to centuries of stagnation and violence.

    Again, this was completely predictable to anyone who knew the history of Islam and its interactions with any other culture. The sad thing is that anyone in the State Department who would have been willing to say this would have been fired on the spot.
    Islam was enlightened for its day. Unlike Christian countries, they allowed other monotheists to live there. They were second class citizens though. Everybody seems to forget that Christian countries didn't allow other religions at all or even denominations at times. If you were Protestant in a Catholic country, then you better convert, get out, or die. That's a fact.

    Muslims started getting violent after the rise of Islam because people had it in their head to kill the Muslims in the area. I would have fought back too.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    My thoughts? That again you're tragically misinformed...but then that's par for the course.
    This isn't the Iraqi government. This is a bunch of terrorists. These same people kill Muslims of a different sect. I have a fantastic idea since we can't kill all of the Muslim world (millions of people and all). Let's go in and kill all of the terrorists and their leaders. We'll get Israel to help us with the Muslim Brotherhood since they're bombing Israel anyway. We bomb every single place associated with their group. We get the help of the people in the areas. We make examples out of them.



    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Why is it that you Libs always insist on going back 200-300 years to justify your misguided point? Why can't you deal in the here and now?
    Because it matters. I didn't go back 200-300 years. I went back five or six thousand years. This country has always had problems right up to the last regime. The last regime was persecuting people. That's why people in Egypt wanted a revolution so badly. They thought an Islamic government would be the answer since that's what they had before. They were wrong. Just because they were wrong doesn't mean they shouldn't keep trying for a truly free government. People seem to think that just because they're not us means they have to have a "lesser of the two evils" in regards to which tyrant runs their country. That's not true. They can have freedom. Not sure how yet though. They weren't wrong to want revolution. They chose their new leaders poorly.

    Not to mention Ody's claiming Islam was always evil and that Christianity somehow made Egypt better. My gosh, any country Christians ruled way back when was persecutive. You realize neither one of us would have survived a Christian middle aged country, right? There's no way. Most of us would be dead. By contrast, Muslims did allow other monotheistic religions so long as they didn't try to rise up to get power. Not enlightened by our standards, but back then it meant something.




    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    That totally ignores the peace and stability Egypt helped bring to the region since the mid 70's. Anwar Sadat was killed by Muslim extremists because he made peace with Israel. His successor Hosni Mubarak continued what Sadat started. With Obama turning a blind eye to what was happening in Egypt...he's managed to destabilize the region and bring us that much closer to confrontation with a unified radical alliance in the Muslim world against anyone that's not Muslim.
    I admire Sadat's williness to make peace with Israel. How did Egypt treat its actual citizens? Horribly. They got tired of it. Just because Mubarak was more secular doesn't mean he was any less crooked. The guy ruled for thirty years. Thirty years. That's not freedom. And it's been argued that elections got rigged. He was known for killing demonstrators. Having Mubarak out of power leaves Christians in danger. People in general were already in danger though. Neither Mubarak nor the Muslim Brotherhood was the answer.
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  10. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Were the elections rigged? Did the Egyptian people want this? It makes me sick to my stomach..
    No. The elections weren't rigged. The election came down to between someone associated with the Mubarak regime, and the MB. So the MB won as a "lesser of two evils." It's unfortunate, because a very well-meaning and liberal/intellectual (not in the bad way) peaceful revolution became hijacked after it succeeded.

    Basically it's Iran 1979 all over again.
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