Thread: Muslim Brotherhood begins crucifixions in Egypt

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  1. #31  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    This isn't the Iraqi government. This is a bunch of terrorists. These same people kill Muslims of a different sect. I have a fantastic idea since we can't kill all of the Muslim world (millions of people and all). Let's go in and kill all of the terrorists and their leaders. We'll get Israel to help us with the Muslim Brotherhood since they're bombing Israel anyway. We bomb every single place associated with their group. We get the help of the people in the areas. We make examples out of them.
    Jus one problem with that...the guy you voted for doesn't want to.




    Because it matters. I didn't go back 200-300 years. I went back five or six thousand years. This country has always had problems right up to the last regime. The last regime was persecuting people. That's why people in Egypt wanted a revolution so badly. They thought an Islamic government would be the answer since that's what they had before. They were wrong. Just because they were wrong doesn't mean they shouldn't keep trying for a truly free government. People seem to think that just because they're not us means they have to have a "lesser of the two evils" in regards to which tyrant runs their country. That's not true. They can have freedom. Not sure how yet though. They weren't wrong to want revolution. They chose their new leaders poorly.
    It ONLY matters when you whiny Libs want to make some stupid moreal equivalency argument. You do it so you can say "see they do it too".

    Amazing how you Libs are willing to do the reach back in hostory on everything except our own Constitution and anything having to do with the Founding Fathers.

    When they get brought up it's all about the here and now.

    What you want us to buy into is blaming Moses for what's happening in Egypt today because the Jews rose up agaisnt the Pharoh. Anyone with a brain can see that and isn't going to buy into that kind of simplistic bullshit.,

    Except for you of course.

    Not to mention Ody's claiming Islam was always evil and that Christianity somehow made Egypt better. My gosh, any country Christians ruled way back when was persecutive.
    No...he's right. See that's the difference between Ody myself and you. We've seen Islam up close and personal. We've studied it...not allegedly been given some sanitized version for non believers like you CLAIM you have in supposedly talking with that Imam. It is evil it has always been evil and for the purveyors of Islam that seeks to destroy anything that isn't Islam it will always be evil. And it must be stopped.


    You realize neither one of us would have survived a Christian middle aged country, right? There's no way. Most of us would be dead.
    Speak for yourself. I'd have done just fine. But then again I'm not a squishy Lib like you.

    By contrast, Muslims did allow other monotheistic religions so long as they didn't try to rise up to get power. Not enlightened by our standards, but back then it meant something.
    That is such crap I don't know where to begin. Again this is where your attempt to reach back in hostory to justify your misguided perceptions fails you. Was ALL religion at some time brutal? Yes. Hell the Pope had his own army.

    But what seperates Christianity from Islam is the fact that Christians moved away from the "convert or die" mentality...there was a great evolution of what it meant to be a Christian and believe in God and the bible. Thus the reason it is the peaceful religion it is today.

    Islam didn't evolve. It stayed right where it was 500 years ago. It hasn't evolved and neither has it's followers.



    I admire Sadat's williness to make peace with Israel. How did Egypt treat its actual citizens? Horribly. They got tired of it. Just because Mubarak was more secular doesn't mean he was any less crooked.
    You don't know that either one of them was crooked. How do you know the citizens were treated horribly/ Were you there? No. What happened is that the Muslim Brotherhood...a radical group that had been banned from the country for decades because of their attempts to overthrow the Government staged a coup because our government had sent signals that we wouldn't step in and stop it or support Egypt. This was hammered home by things said by Obama after the protests started in Tahari Square. The brotherhood was given the green light...by us.

    Now look what's happening. The blood from these crucifixions is partially on Obama's hands.


    The guy ruled for thirty years. Thirty years. That's not freedom.
    Says who?


    And it's been argued that elections got rigged. He was known for killing demonstrators.
    I suppose you have links right?

    Having Mubarak out of power leaves Christians in danger
    Mubarak or his successor out of power leaves the ENTIRE REGION in danger. It has severly destabilized the region.

    Did you see the little news piece over the weekend that the thug-in-chief in Egypt is going to visit his Iranian counterpart? First time that's happened since the early
    70's.


    People in general were already in danger though.
    How do you figure? Because your misguided naive Liberal feelings told you that if we supported Mubarak it must be wrong? That because the Egyptian government suppressed a radical islamic terrorist group intent on implementing Sharia law across the land if given the chance that somehow made them dangerous?


    Neither Mubarak nor the Muslim Brotherhood was the answer.
    Except that with Mubarak we were not only guarenteed a stable reliable ally in that area along with Israel. Now we have another enemy in the making.
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  2. #32  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Sigh. So any Muslim who says that murder is wrong and that we should live in peace with other religions is lying? Give me a break.

    This guy told me about how things started going bad when they took prayer out of schools. I reminded him it was Christian prayers that got taken out. He suggested that schools have students divide up into groups according to religion so they could pray and study. It was all a lie? Really? Why do extremists like the Muslim Brotherhood get to speak for all Muslims?
    The Muslim Brotherhood gets to speak for them because they are the best-organized, best-armed and most fanatical faction, and everybody else is cowed. Do you rhink that Egyptians who oppose the Brotherhood will stand up to them when they are crucifying anyone who disagrees with their agenda? The Brotherhood is about Islamic supremacy. Think about what you are hearing. He proposed separating kids by religion in public schools, and Muslim kids would be praying five times per day. That means that they would be separated five times per day. Do you agree with that? Does that seem reasonable to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Thanks for the link. It looks like terrorists, not the Iraqi government is doing this. Kurdish government? I must be missing something. I do think it's possible that those in the Iraqi government might be turning a blind eye, but we don't know that for certain.
    Then listen to those of us who do know for certain, i.e., those of us who have been there. The Iraqi constitution enshrined Sharia law into Iraqi law. Do you really think that the government of Iraq didn't know what it was doing when it decided to impose Sharia? That's like arguing that Kristalnacht was only a mob action, not a policy of the German government. What you don't get is that the mob and the government are the same. Sharia compels believers to impose humiliation and death on infidels. That means that the Iraqi constitution, which states that no law in Iraq can be in conflict with Sharia, tacitly supports this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Islam was enlightened for its day. Unlike Christian countries, they allowed other monotheists to live there. They were second class citizens though. Everybody seems to forget that Christian countries didn't allow other religions at all or even denominations at times. If you were Protestant in a Catholic country, then you better convert, get out, or die. That's a fact.
    Remember who you're talking to, Lanie. I am inimately familiar with the history of Christianity and other religions. And no, Islam was not enlightened in its day. It compelled the subjugation, humiliation or death of all unbelievers, and while Christians and Jews were offered the option of dhimmitude (a horrifically degrading and insulting status), others were simply slaughtered or enslaved. Look at the history of Hindus and Sikhs in India for an example. And, dhimmitude wasn't a requirement for Muslim rulers, it was an option, which many chose not to exercise. For every caliph who protected the "people of the book", there were others who sought to expel or slaughter them. The Armenian Genocide was an example of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Muslims started getting violent after the rise of Islam because people had it in their head to kill the Muslims in the area. I would have fought back too.
    This is patently false. Mohammed established a violent empire based on conquest. His colony in Medina supported itself by raiding caravans from Mecca and enslaved anyone who survived the raids. Eventually, the Meccans had enough and tried to fight Mohammed, who violated every pact that he made with them. His philosophy was violent and duplicitous from the beginning.
    --Odysseus
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  3. #33  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    A Christian girl with Down syndrome could be punished by death in Pakistan after she was spotted holding burned pages of Islamic text in public, activists and police say.

    The girl, identified by police as Rimsha, was arrested on blasphemy charges and is being detained in Islamabad ahead of a court appearance before the end of the month, AFP reports.

    Defaming Islam, the Koran or the Prophet Muhammed is a capital offense in Pakistan.
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/08...gedly-burning/


    Tell me Bridget...does that sound like a religion that at any time in history was "enlightened"?
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Jus one problem with that...the guy you voted for doesn't want to.
    True.


    What you want us to buy into is blaming Moses for what's happening in Egypt today because the Jews rose up agaisnt the Pharoh. Anyone with a brain can see that and isn't going to buy into that kind of simplistic bullshit.,

    Except for you of course.
    What the crap? Where did I say I was blaming Moses? Did you seriously type that with a straight face? I blame Egypt for always have a problem with tolerance.


    No...he's right. See that's the difference between Ody myself and you. We've seen Islam up close and personal. We've studied it...not allegedly been given some sanitized version for non believers like you CLAIM you have in supposedly talking with that Imam. It is evil it has always been evil and for the purveyors of Islam that seeks to destroy anything that isn't Islam it will always be evil. And it must be stopped.
    It hurts that you think I lied about speaking to an Imam. That only makes me question more the accusation that Muslims are lying. It shows me that you accuse somebody of lying who is not.

    If you truly believe that Islam is evil and that the people practicing it are evil, then what would you like to do with the countries full of Muslims? Keep in mind they are Muslims. They may or may not support the Muslim brotherhood, but they're Muslims. I know you do not believe they're all evil.


    Speak for yourself. I'd have done just fine. But then again I'm not a squishy Lib like you.
    Have you ever taken an herb for anything? If so, then you're a witch. Ever date divorced women? That's a no-no. Have you ever become unequally yoked by dating a woman who wasn't your religion or denomination? You may be a Christian, but you aren't a saint.


    That is such crap I don't know where to begin. Again this is where your attempt to reach back in hostory to justify your misguided perceptions fails you. Was ALL religion at some time brutal? Yes. Hell the Pope had his own army.

    But what seperates Christianity from Islam is the fact that Christians moved away from the "convert or die" mentality...there was a great evolution of what it meant to be a Christian and believe in God and the bible. Thus the reason it is the peaceful religion it is today.

    Islam didn't evolve. It stayed right where it was 500 years ago. It hasn't evolved and neither has it's followers.
    It's been argued that they need more time like we got. Problem is we don't have it in a world with nuclear weapons. What about the millions of Muslims over here? They appear to be "evolved." I don't think you believe all Muslims are evil.


    You don't know that either one of them was crooked. How do you know the citizens were treated horribly/ Were you there? No. What happened is that the Muslim Brotherhood...a radical group that had been banned from the country for decades because of their attempts to overthrow the Government staged a coup because our government had sent signals that we wouldn't step in and stop it or support Egypt. This was hammered home by things said by Obama after the protests started in Tahari Square. The brotherhood was given the green light...by us.
    They never should have been forced to have the same leader for thirty years. That's being a tyrant. Do you really believe Egypt had to be in a situation of either accepting the same tyrant guy for thirty years or be subjected to the Muslim Brotherhood? Why did it have to be one or the other?

    Now look what's happening. The blood from these crucifixions is partially on Obama's hands.
    The people responsible for this are the Muslim Brotherhood, and I say we destroy them once and for all.



    Links for rigged elections

    Not that it will matter.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-12-1...ctions/2372042

    Human rights groups there and abroad have alleged widespread fraud, from ballot box stuffing to removing candidates' names from the list, intimidation and outright violence by party thugs and security forces.
    How does a guy *honestly* stay in power for thirty years? You have kept track of Putin haven't you? (Another country that has never known freedom). He makes sure that people don't know much about his opposition, meaning he'll always be voted back in. Do you really think the last leader of Egypt was honest?
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The Muslim Brotherhood gets to speak for them because they are the best-organized, best-armed and most fanatical faction, and everybody else is cowed. Do you rhink that Egyptians who oppose the Brotherhood will stand up to them when they are crucifying anyone who disagrees with their agenda? The Brotherhood is about Islamic supremacy. Think about what you are hearing. He proposed separating kids by religion in public schools, and Muslim kids would be praying five times per day. That means that they would be separated five times per day. Do you agree with that? Does that seem reasonable to you?
    Muslim kids do get to be separated in schools to pray. From what I could tell, it was only at lunch, but it didn't seem to cause any harm. You pray, and then go back to class.

    I don't think Egyptians will want to fight back right now. That doesn't mean they won't. People from Iran have been standing up to their theocracy government years after the Shah was taken out. Egypt will get to that point as well.


    Then listen to those of us who do know for certain, i.e., those of us who have been there. The Iraqi constitution enshrined Sharia law into Iraqi law. Do you really think that the government of Iraq didn't know what it was doing when it decided to impose Sharia? That's like arguing that Kristalnacht was only a mob action, not a policy of the German government. What you don't get is that the mob and the government are the same. Sharia compels believers to impose humiliation and death on infidels. That means that the Iraqi constitution, which states that no law in Iraq can be in conflict with Sharia, tacitly supports this.
    Ody, the problem is by demonizing Islam, you're demonizing every last person who practices it. If they're all evil, shouldn't they all die? Do you believe that? If you don't believe that, then why not? That's the problem here. I don't have a problem with condemning theocracy. I have a problem with declaring every last Muslim to be evil. It opens the door to some dangerous ideas.


    Remember who you're talking to, Lanie. I am inimately familiar with the history of Christianity and other religions. And no, Islam was not enlightened in its day. It compelled the subjugation, humiliation or death of all unbelievers, and while Christians and Jews were offered the option of dhimmitude (a horrifically degrading and insulting status), others were simply slaughtered or enslaved. Look at the history of Hindus and Sikhs in India for an example. And, dhimmitude wasn't a requirement for Muslim rulers, it was an option, which many chose not to exercise. For every caliph who protected the "people of the book", there were others who sought to expel or slaughter them. The Armenian Genocide was an example of this.
    Ok.
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  6. #36  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Lanie the longer I know you the more naive you become, how is that possible?
    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Lanie the longer I know you the more naive you become, how is that possible?
    Which part?
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  8. #38  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Which part?
    Islam wants you dead Lanie, all of Islam.
    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Islam wants you dead Lanie, all of Islam.
    So, every last Muslim wants me dead? Should we kill them all first? How do we know they're not told the same thing about us? They're human beings.

    And you want to know why I can't be conservative. It doesn't even feel natural to me. Every time I consider it, I feel like I'm going to the dark side and that the cookies are stale. There's no compromising, no middle ground, no acknowledging the humanity of those different from you.
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  10. #40  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    So, every last Muslim wants me dead? Should we kill them all first? How do we know they're not told the same thing about us? They're human beings.

    And you want to know why I can't be conservative. It doesn't even feel natural to me. Every time I consider it, I feel like I'm going to the dark side and that the cookies are stale. There's no compromising, no middle ground, no acknowledging the humanity of those different from you.
    No need to kill all of them for several hundred years we just made sure they stayed there.
    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
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