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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
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    IRAN: ATTACK BY ISRAEL SAME AS ATTACK BY U.S.
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    You can't negotiate with evil because evil lies.
    Good men sleep peaceably in their beds at night because
    rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.



    Real superheroes don't wear capes. They wear dog tags.
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  2. #12  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    1. An attack by Israel against Iran is either going to succeed in knocking out their nuclear capabilities or it will fail and lead to civilian casualties and the sympathy of other powers in the region for Iran. There will be lots of pictures of dead Iranian women and children shown on the news, and it will turn international sympathy from Israel. Furthermore, a counter attack on Israel by Iran and the coalition of sympathizers (Syria, Egypt, among others) that Iran will build after an Israeli attack could destroy Israel.
    2. If the US backs Israel in such a move, then we will likely lose a very valuable ally, Turkey, which will then be under pressure from it's population to turn against Israel/the US/NATO.
    3. There is the possibility that Israel is saber-rattling to influence the US election in the fall. The sitting president should allow that?


    So, does the definition of being a good ally to Israel mean backing them when they commit a possibly suicidal act?

    A President cannot use Biblical prophecy as his foreign policy guidebook and count on God to protect Israel from attacks by her enemies. The real world is not a Left Behind novel.
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  3. #13  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Gator must be very happy now, so happy he might vote for obama.
    No doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    1. An attack by Israel against Iran is either going to succeed in knocking out their nuclear capabilities or it will fail and lead to civilian casualties and the sympathy of other powers in the region for Iran. There will be lots of pictures of dead Iranian women and children shown on the news, and it will turn international sympathy from Israel. Furthermore, a counter attack on Israel by Iran and the coalition of sympathizers (Syria, Egypt, among others) that Iran will build after an Israeli attack could destroy Israel.
    2. If the US backs Israel in such a move, then we will likely lose a very valuable ally, Turkey, which will then be under pressure from it's population to turn against Israel/the US/NATO.
    3. There is the possibility that Israel is saber-rattling to influence the US election in the fall. The sitting president should allow that?


    So, does the definition of being a good ally to Israel mean backing them when they commit a possibly suicidal act?

    A President cannot use Biblical prophecy as his foreign policy guidebook and count on God to protect Israel from attacks by her enemies. The real world is not a Left Behind novel.
    You are talking about the wrong religion. It's got nothing to do with the Bible, which Obama is woefully ignorant of, but has everythign to do with the Qur'an and the Hadiths, which promise that Muslims will murder all of the Jews in the world. The mullahs are apocalyptic theocrats who take this literally. Iranian leaders, at every level, have promised to "wipe Israel off of the map." What you can't seem to get your head around is that they mean it. They are actually going to do it and if it starts a nuclear war in the region, then that simply advances the Qur'anic narrative. This isn't hyperbole, it's fact. Iran will nuke Israel when they have the capacity to do so. Nothing that we do will persuade them not to. Sanctions will not dissuade them. Diplomacy will not convince them to abandon the jihad. They are rational actors pursuing an irrational goal, and, like Hitler before them, they are hell-bent on achieving the means to do it. This is Iran's motivation, and the Islamic Republic's raisson d'etre. No words will stop them. This is what Natanyahu faces, and his decisions reflect this context. If Israel doesn't take out Iran's nuclear capability before the Iranians have deployable warheads, they will be on the receiving end of a second Holocaust. Israel has no choice. They face an existential threat from Iran's nuclear weapons program. Their options are to either take out the nukes before they can be dispersed and deployed, or die. There is nothing else. Given that, what choice would you make if you were Netanyahu?

    Obama's actions are another matter. Iran has repeatedly said that it makes no distinction between an attack by Israel and an attack by the US. To Iran, we're all infidels, and the jihad goes on, regardless. Obama's statement was meant to prevent Iranian retaliation against US targets in the region by attempting to throw an ally to the wolves. In effect, he is saying that Iran can do what it wants with Israel in retaliation, that America will not act. However, this has failed. Without nukes, Iran's only means of revenge on the Great Satan is to rain missiles on our bases in Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and anywhere else within range. These would be ugly and brutal attacks, but we have a lot more stuff to throw at them, if we have the will. They are betting that we don't, and with good reason. A sitting US president has basically gone from bowing to tyrants to begging them on his knees not to target us if our ally does something that they don't like. It's pathetic and craven. If Israel does take out Iran's nukes, I have no doubt that the mullahs will use their proxies in Lebanon and Gaza to attack Israel. They may or may not attack our bases in the region, but since those bases represent power projection platforms that a strong US leader could use to topple them, wouldn't you destroy them while a weak leader was in office?

    Turkey is only an ally on paper. The Turks are now rapidly Islamicizing their government and the military leaders who might have opposed this have been purged and jailed. Turkey is, at best, about as friendly to us as Egypt right now. Turkey will probably sit out a fight between us, Israel and Iran, because no matter who wins, it will weaken one of their adversaries. Iran is a Shiite state, and the Sunni Turks have been opposing Iran in Syria. The current Turkish government has no problem with Iran and Israel destroying each other. If anything, it advances their interests to become the next regional power. If the US gets involved on Israel's side, the Turks will be happy to undermine us and use the opportunity to strengthen their position in the Muslim world.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Turkey is only an ally on paper. The Turks are now rapidly Islamicizing their government and the military leaders who might have opposed this have been purged and jailed. Turkey is, at best, about as friendly to us as Egypt right now. Turkey will probably sit out a fight between us, Israel and Iran, because no matter who wins, it will weaken one of their adversaries.
    Which is exactly what they did when they denied the US...a NATO ally by the way...access to ports when we needed to drop the 4th ID into Northern Iraq in 2003.

    And what is Ironic about that is that now they come back when Syria shoots down one of their recon jets and asks NATO to help them out.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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