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  1. #21  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    I'm in a passionate mood tonight. Sorry guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Romney didn't say that, and neither did Odysseus.
    Let's see? What did Romney say? He said that 47% of the country would vote for Obama no matter what because they think the government should give them healthcare, food, housing, etc. How else would you interpret that?

    Ody said I was part of the 53% supporting the other 47 percent. How would I be doing that unless they were all unemployed, under employed, or somehow on government assistance? But wait! Romney says I'm part of the 47% who wants the government do do everything for me. Whose right? Am I the mooch or am I supporting the mooches (47% of this country)?

    For years now, you all have portrayed this idea that if you believe in government helping the poor, then you're a Socialist. You believe in exploiting the rich to ensure that the poor doesn't have to work. That's the crap you all have been spewing for years. I'm tired of it because I know it isn't true. I believe in hard work just as much as you all do, and I get tired of your side saying differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Neither Romney nor Ody said that, either.
    So, why would 47% of this country want the government to support them? That doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    So do I and every conservative I know.
    So, why do you act like we're the enemy because we believe in doing things differently than you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    I'd like that too, but I would really prefer that they not become single moms in the first place, and whether anyone likes it or not, it's an undeniable fact that the single mom bears half of the responsibility for becoming a single mom in the first place in most cases.
    People make mistakes. Trump declared bankruptsy three times. Romney got government assistance in regards to his company once. Banks get bailed out on a regular basis because they screwed up in business. If companies and rich people are going to be given a hand up when they screw up, then why can't individual people?



    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    That doesn't even make sense.
    Do you not know anybody receiving this assistance? Okay, once you get a job, the government takes those wages into consideration when considering whether to give medicaid. Sometimes, the child can still get medicaid. Sometimes, they can't. The adult will usually be knocked out of it. That's fine if it's a job that enables the adult to provide food, shelter, child care, and healthcare. If it's some part time retail or burger job that's going to do nothing more than knock you out of your help, then that's the problem right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    That was a nice rant, but not really relevant here. If this was supposed to be about disabled people being part of the 47%, then:

    1. Not all, or even most, people who are disabled are people who are going to vote for the Democrat who promises them more free stuff; IOW, the disabled are not representative of the 47%,
    1. Good point. Not everybody in this situation votes Democrat, but they're obviously part of the group of people who would benefit from a change in the healthcare system. They may not want to vote for what best suites their interests, but I do. Just like some of you all think my rights as a Catholic are being violated by Obama and you want to vote on my behalf. It's all about what matters to you.

      [QUOTE=Adam Wood;529292]and besides;
    2. even if the disabled 100% were people who would vote for the Democrat no matter what in order to get freebies, they are such a tiny sliver of the population as to be inconsequential. When was the last time that you heard about the all-important wheelchair voting bloc? Overall, the disabled (meaning either people who have some mental disturbance or those who are in a wheelchair or those who have some physical malady that prevents them from working or prevents them from full employment) is about 3% of the population as a whole.

    You'd be surprised how much they can do. ADA didn't come out of nowhere. For starters, you don't know what and all is considered a handicap. You don't have to be in a wheelchair. You don't have to be mentally unstable. Legally speaking, they're a bigger group of people than you think. Guess what? They're not all unemployed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    I'm not really quite sure why. You said yourself that you regretted your vote for Obama last time. Why you would want to do that again is beyond me.
    That's mostly I didn't expect Obama to do a mandate for healthcare because he said he wouldn't. Guess what? Romney did the same thing. I don't believe him when he says he'll repeal Obamacare. Why would he? That's his plan.

    After my rage regarding the healthcare act, I started seeing some changes. For starters, all preventive exams come at no cost. This helps things get caught before they're serious. Flu shots are at no cost if you have health insurance. I'm also looking at friends who can't work, can't get medicaid, and can't get help with charities, and I'm afraid for them. The conservative solution does not work.

    I was really torn about the issue until a few months ago. I had voted Republican in 2010 thinking they'd reduce taxes on a state level. They hardly used any of their power for that. In fact, I owed far more last year than ever before on a state level. What the Republicans did do in my state is possibly make it harder to get on healthcare with their ridiculous Amendment One act. People in some counties had domestic benefits. They were able to give benefits to the other person's kids. Now, the argument is that Amendment One won't overturn any of that. We've already seen where people were trying to get rid of domestic benefits. It's funny because domestic benefits doesn't have a thing to do with marriage, but whatever.

    The fact that Republicans put that up to a vote and caused all that possible grief is the biggest "screw you" I've ever seen. Democrats did vote for it, but Republican politicians who I voted for set it all in motion. These are the last people I want deciding on healthcare. To me, Amendment One was about so much more than gay rights. It was about healthcare too. I will never forget what the Republican politicians in this state have put people through or attempted to put them through in some cases. What happens the next few days? Romney (who is historically for gay rights) suddenly claims he wants to make sure gays can't get any domestic benefits (i.e. no civil unions). You say your side is for limited government, but I don't see that at all. I especially don't see it on my state. It's a state where gays have no rights, the definition of domestic violence is now under question, and we're still heavily taxed. This place is a libertarian's nightmare (not that I'm libertarian).

    I can't trust Republican politicians on a state level. Why would I trust them on a federal level? It really comes down to trust. I don't trust Romney. I don't trust him to do fair taxes. I don't trust him to ensure that women get their pills covered under insurance that they pay for it, not free. I don't even trust Romney to stand by his conservative campaign because of his voting record. Who is Mitt Romney? I don't know.

    BTW, did you know I voted for a Republican criminal as my sheriff and that a big chunk of the mostly Republican county tried to vote him back in years later? That's why NC passed a law saying convicts can't run. They shouldn't have had to do that. Adam, some of these Republicans here have no shame, none at all. I realize that's not fair to you all, but when I think of conservative, I'll always think of my surroundings. It's like asking a conservative in Berkeley to have an open mind. It's hard to do after a while when people just have no shame. Not to mention I had an open mind and I think we got burned for it.
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  2. #22  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Who are these people?
    People in my young adult Catholic group, pro-life activist groups. I'm driving by and reading church signs saying to pray for the country. I know my neck of the woods well enough to know what it means. Pray the evil Democrats don't get it. There's even a movement where a bunch of pastors are going to openly preach in favor of Romney from the pew, send it to the IRS, and dare them to tax them. Yeah, these people are there. According to them, abortion and gay rights are the only issues that matter for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Most people who care do, yes.
    Then, why are so many conservatives acting like he wasn't? Why are they acting like voting for Romney is the way to end abortion when it's obvious that it's NOT TRUE. The man isn't going to lift a finger for the unborn. No, wait. He'll throw a bone. That's it. Why are conservatives acting like people are bad if they don't vote for the supposed pro-life candidate? At least Obama's being honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    People have changes of mind from time to time, you know. I was once firmly pro-abortion. Regardless, it continues to be a non-issue for this election but for the Democrats' desperation of throwing it out there.
    I have heard politicians such as Obama and Bush talking about changing their mind on a subject, and I believe them. Romney hasn't said a word about changing his mind. He's pretending things didn't happen at all. I'm telling you he isn't going to end abortion on demand.

    Not only does Romney pretend things didn't happen, he points his liberal side out at times. He just addressed the supposed forty-seven percent by talking about the healthcare plan he had passed in his own state. That matters why? Is he going to keep Obamacare? He says he'll repeal it, but we should look to his plan on a state level as proof that he cares. He doesn't even make sense after a while. At least Obama makes sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Tell Dick Cheney.

    The VP often has a strong hand in shaping policy, albeit usually pretty invisibly.
    Do you really want to add to the "Dick Cheney was the VP" hysteria? George Bush verified that while he valued Cheney's decisions, Cheney was not in charge. The VP breaks a tie and takes over if the President dies. That's pretty much it. If Romney wins, he'll want to stay in power too badly. Do you really think he'll commit political suicide by ending abortion on demand, even in cases of rape and incest? He won't. He's not even going to end abortion on demand. Ryan may very well quit on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    You do understand the difference between states and the federal government, right?
    Romney got nominated because he first worked in state government. People liked what he did. Also, why would Romney reference his healthcare plan in MA in regards to the Presidential election? How is it relevant? Either he plans on keeping some of Obamacare or it's not relevant at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Rubbish. Rich people get abortions, too. The key to reducing abortions is to stop pretending that sex should never have consequences. That starts with not allowing and indeed encouraging sex that is allegedly without consequences.
    Yeah, it works so well in Africa, right? You know the Netherlands has one of the lowest abortion rates in the world, and little to no laws against abortion. Stupid socialism. Statistically speaking, most people having abortions are poor. The key to ending abortion is mostly to end poverty, not self-righteous condemnation that has never worked. And BTW, most Republicans I know have pre-marital sex. It's really hard to find a good conservative man who believes in no sex before marriage. Republican Party once again comes off as a party in which they think you can't smell their crap. Problem is I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    Wrong. Even the heavily pro-abortion Guttmacher Institute disagrees with you:
    Let's see what we have here.

    Women who have never married and are not cohabiting account for 45% of all abortions [6]
    Women who have never married do not have the financial support of a husband to help them.

    Twenty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes between 100–199% of the federal poverty level.* [6]
    That's a high percentage, and that's just talking about the government's percentage of federal poverty level.

    The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[7]
    So 3/4 (75 percent) have concluded they cannot afford a child. Seventy-five percent also think that a baby could interfere with work (which prevents poverty) and school (which helps people get good jobs and prevent poverty). Yeah, money has nothing to do with this.

    Now, let's see what I can find and will probably be ignored (can you tell I'm politipissed?).

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0820205056.htm

    Their analysis showed that more than half (57%) of the women who had had an abortion had faced a major life stressor in the preceding year. One in 5 had lost their jobs; one in 6 had separated from their partner; one in 7 had fallen behind on their rental or mortgage payments, while one in 8 had moved several times.
    Instead of relying on condemnation, we need to be helping these women.



    Guess what: MOST people in their twenties are earning something between 100% and 199% of the federal poverty guidelines. Relatively few people come out of high school or college and immediately start earning $50,000 salaries. The federal poverty guideline is $11,170 for a single person household, so twice that is $22,340, or a wage of about $10.75/hour. Not a lot of people just starting out in life start out with that kind of wage or salary.
    True, but read above. BTW, the people who do have the babies are going to ask for government assistance, which Republicans are saying is mostly just to mooch. What do you think would happen if government assistance was taken away? More abortions, whether it's legal or not. Just ask some of the third world countries about this. Yeah, no way I want Republicans running the country. I'll get over it if they do, but I won't vote for Romney.


    Actually, he has actively worked against employment.
    In your opinion. Jobs have been created during his administration. How is Obama supposed to create jobs when Republicans won't work with him? There are even rumors that some of those Republican politicians vowed to work against him no matter what because they didn't want him to have any credit for bringing jobs.

    Wrong. Employment does not come about by legislative fiat or dictate. It also does not come about by executive fiat or dictate. What both branches can (and should) do is stay the hell out of the way of private enterprise so that they, who are the only ones who actually can create employment, can feel comfortable about creating employment.
    It worked so well during the Bush years with all that work going to China. Yes, I know. Clinton started it. Republicans with their attitude against regulation had no desire to stop it. Tell me why I should trust them for job growth again?

    How nicely you're ignoring the part where he says that lowering those tax rates goes hand-in-hand with getting rid of those loopholes.
    Why should I believe that when he says his fourteen percent is fair? The average person has no idea how many loopholes there are, and the average person won't even notice when certain loopholes are not done away with. I'm actually for some of those loopholes, so long as it directly promotes job growth. Give a tax break to those who keep the work here. Give a tax break to those who are vowing to create jobs with the extra money.

    What? WTF are you talking about?
    Old news. The work in his company got sent overseas.

    That's a nice feel-good argument, and perhaps a valid one economically. Make your case economically. Use math. In the process, demonstrate why Florida should be spending taxpayer money to protect potato-growers' jobs while Idaho spends taxpayer money to protect orange-growers' jobs.
    It's a no brainer. Those workers will be putting tax money into the system and not asking for government assistance.

    Errr... OK. I get the piece with the most cherry topping, though.
    They only had funnel cake. We stood in long lines for it too. lol.

    Sorry that I sound insane in this post. SSL. (Sorry so long).
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  3. #23  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Why is it that when we talk about Romney he's a flip flopper but when it's Obama he's evolved?
    Obama admits to evolving. Romney pretends the past didn't happen.
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  4. #24  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    That's awesome. I actually read the entire thing too.

    I hope Lanie formats her reply as eloquently. If she does, it will probably take her about three weeks. LMAO.
    Sorry.
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  5. #25  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Obama admits to evolving. Romney pretends the past didn't happen.
    And you can prove this how?
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
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    Lanie I'll let Adam respond to your post but my question is why do people think exams (and other stuff you stated) are free? Someone's paying for it right? The ADA and Romneycare for that matter are great in theory and seem compassionate, but the medical field won't lower cost and "the rich" pay for it. This is why conservatives are so against it. Not because all conservatives are rich but because conservatives don't want government robbing from the rich to pay the doctor for everybody.

    Just so you know, as a conservative I don't mind govt assistance for the disabled or the elderly (means tested of course). Back in the old days (when I was a kid) my mom wrote a check for my pediatrician visit. Insurance was for catastrophic situations only. Since that's changed, prices have skyrocketed. Obamacare will only make that worse. It has already. Premiums have gone up too.
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member wasp69's Avatar
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    Bridget, it's very interesting to see that you have not progressed past the howling pseudo-intellectual kid that landed at CU 7 or 8 years ago. You have not learned one damned thing even though your supposed presence here is for the sake of education. For a "student", you have shown yourself to be an intellectual failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Once again, this goes back to prejudice. Forty-seven percent of this country is not a bunch of lazy bums. You're just being prejudice and so is Romney. Seriously, do you think forty-seven percent of this country is without a job? Are you not reading the news?
    Are you so dense that you have not paid attention for the past several years that the 47% is referencing those whose tax burden is either nil or negative? On the 15th of April, those who fall into one of many categories (EITC, etc) find themselves getting back more than they put in while the "evil rich" are stroking checks to Uncle Sugar. That is not speculation, that is a fact.

    No one is calling anyone a deadbeat, but the truth of the matter is that those who are screaming the loudest for nanny government are in that 47%.

    Try and be "passionate" all you want, it's still a fact and reality doesn't care what your opinion might be.

    I believe in helping others become successful instead of slamming the door behind me.


    How so very noble of you, Bridget. Is there an answer to your plight other than nanny government?

    I'd like all the single moms on welfare (most of welfare recipients) to get enough education to get a decent paying job.
    Wouldn't we all. Difference is, we'd like to see it done the old fashioned way of determination and sacrifice vice taking the earnings of others at gunpoint.

    Is there an answer to your plight other than nanny government?

    I would like parents to feel like they don't have to choose between working for wages and their children's healthcare or their healthcare.
    How so very noble... Considering that it's illegal for any hospital to turn away any patient for not having insurance, there is no issue of the non-availability of "healthcare". Your premise is an emotional one instead of thought out.

    Is there an answer to your plight other than nanny government?

    I have more than one friend applying for disability because they can't work. It's not that they don't want to work. They were working. It's that they can't work. They're being denied medicaid right now. Because they're still trying to get some income, they can't get private assistance from charities (because they're still considered to be applying for medicaid). These people are in crappy health. NOBODY should be denied healthcare. Yeah, ERs are certainly nice. It would be better if people could get the rehab they need, the medicine they need, and so forth to prevent an ER visit.
    Ah, I guess my question is answered - nanny government!

    In case you haven't noticed, I'm suddenly wanting to talk about why I'm voting for Obama.
    What a shock, I'm sure none of us saw this coming....

    Your answer to 4 years of misery are to add more. Good call, Bridget! You have proven that you are disingenuous, undisciplined, hypocritical, do not have the ability to reason, and are unworthy of the time spent trying to unstick your head from your ass. You should be ridiculed by civilized, rational people for being the emotional cripple you have so often demonstrated yourself to be every time you post.

    You regret your vote for obama but will gladly vote for him again. What a shock...

    The key to reducing abortion is reducing poverty.
    Bullshit. If that were the case, the War on Poverty would have ended abortion decades ago. But, at least you are consistent: Throw more tax payer money at the problem and it will go away.



    Next argument: Obama hasn't brought enough employment.

    Fact: Obama tried to get more work in and Republicans wouldn't go for it.
    Back up your bullshit, little girl. Obama threw billions of our tax dollars out of the window to his donors and it did nothing. The Republicans have submitted many job bills that did not include burying us in more debt. They all are sitting on Harry Reid's desk, gathering dust.

    His lowest monthly unemployment number coincides with the highest for Bush: January 2009.

    Next argument: Obama will raise your taxes.
    Fact: It's been proven that the rich are getting extra tax cuts through loopholes. How can the rich talk about fair taxes when Mitt Romney says it's fair for him to be taxed less? I understand that they're the job creators, but where is his company right now? Not here. Companies should be given tax cuts for keeping their business here in America.
    Bullshit again. Thanks to obamacare, he did just that. Considering how badly he wants to get rid of the current tax structure, he can't wait to do it again.

    Try that crap on someone who hasn't been paying attention, little girl.
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  8. #28  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Obama admits to evolving. Romney pretends the past didn't happen.
    I don't believe that is true.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    ........What did Romney say? He said that 47% of the country would vote for Obama no matter what because they think the government should give them healthcare, food, housing, etc...
    That's right. That's what he said. I believe he is right.

    Romney says I'm part of the 47% who wants the government do do everything for me
    Now, you're wrong. He never mentioned you. And you told us you were NOT part of the group that would vote for Obama no matter what, so he specifically excluded you.

    So, why would 47% of this country want the government to support them? That doesn't make sense.
    They believe it is the government's function to support them. You're right, it doesn't make sense.

    People make mistakes...........if companies and rich people are going to be given a hand up when they screw up, then why can't individual people?.....
    OK. If you have made a mistake by voting for Obama, then I forgive you. Go. And sin no more.

    On the other hand, if you do it again, then I will have to call you stupid. Again.
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Gina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    I don't believe that is true.
    I don't believe it's true either. I wonder how Romney pretends. He's moving on, holding more conservative positions (more than they used to be that is) but that doesn't mean he doesn't remember the past I don't think.
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