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  1. #1 A 10.0 on the Richter Scale........ 
    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012...ity-officials/
    (snip)

    The information I heard today was that General [Carter] Ham as head of Africom received the same e-mails the White House received requesting help/support as the attack was taking place. General Ham immediately had a rapid response unit ready and communicated to the Pentagon that he had a unit ready.

    General Ham then received the order to stand down. His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.

    The story continues that now General Rodiguez would take General Hamís place as the head of Africom.

    (snip)
    ?????????

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    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    You VILL NOT question or disobey Lord O!!! Or else!

    Christ, this sounds like a Clancy novel...
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  3. #3  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    This was brought up in another thread yesterday. It seems to be making the usual round of conspiracy theories online. I'm calling BS on it myself, Ody seemed to agree.

    Four star generals aren't forcibly relieved of command. I'm pretty sure it takes an act of congress to do that, and given how much blood Issa is after on this, we'd have heard about it long ago.

    Also, his replacement needs to be approved by the Senate, another point where I'm sure the question will come up. Granted, it looks like that won't happen until after the election, but if something like this were to come to light, then it's surely to be an impeachable offense, and Obama would never want it getting out period.
    Last edited by djones520; 10-28-2012 at 09:27 AM.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Unreconstructed Reb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    This was brought up in another thread yesterday. It seems to be making the usual round of conspiracy theories online. I'm calling BS on it myself, Ody seemed to agree.

    Four star generals aren't forcibly relieved of command. I'm pretty sure it takes an act of congress to do that, and given how much blood Issa is after on this, we'd have heard about it long ago.

    Also, his replacement needs to be approved by the Senate, another point where I'm sure the question will come up. Granted, it looks like that won't happen until after the election, but if something like this were to come to light, then it's surely to be an impeachable offense, and Obama would never want it getting out period.
    According to the article the replacement announcements were in Stars and Stripes.
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  5. #5  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    This was brought up in another thread yesterday. It seems to be making the usual round of conspiracy theories online. I'm calling BS on it myself, Ody seemed to agree.

    Four star generals aren't forcibly relieved of command. I'm pretty sure it takes an act of congress to do that, and given how much blood Issa is after on this, we'd have heard about it long ago.

    Also, his replacement needs to be approved by the Senate, another point where I'm sure the question will come up. Granted, it looks like that won't happen until after the election, but if something like this were to come to light, then it's surely to be an impeachable offense, and Obama would never want it getting out period.
    Yes and no. The process of appointing a commander isn't the same as promoting a GO. The President can relieve any officer at will (just ask MacArthur or McCrystol), and replace him the same way. It doesn't take senate approval. However, a relief action would be proof of Obama's failure to aid the consulate staff, and would be political suicide, and Ham, once out of uniform, would be highly vocal about it.

    Also, if something like this did happen, it would be very hard to keep it under wraps. The conflicting orders would have gone through the Joint OPS Center, so the entire staff would have had visibility of it. Every Soldier in the JOC would have had access to the orders, and there would have been massive e-mail traffic on the SIPR side. An order to detain the CG would have had to go to the DCG, and he'd have had to bring his Personal Security Detachment to enforce it. This isn't something that would have gone under the radar in the headquarters, it would have been extremely visible, as they would have also had to shut down all operations in order to ensure that nobody else went out to execute the rescue. It wouldn't have leaked, it would have hemorrhaged. That's why I'm skeptical.
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    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Reb View Post
    According to the article the replacement announcements were in Stars and Stripes.
    Yes, he is being replaced. No question about it. The cause on the other hand is the question.

    Obama has nominated Gen. Rodriguez to replace him, but he still has to be approved by the Senate. There is no word what is going on with Ham.

    This is anything but a closed and shut case, but to say that he is having his command removed because he counterracted an order to not attempt to save US personnel is so far fetched it would be in a Jerry Bruckheimer movie.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  7. #7  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Yes and no. The process of appointing a commander isn't the same as promoting a GO. The President can relieve any officer at will (just ask MacArthur or McCrystol), and replace him the same way. It doesn't take senate approval. However, a relief action would be proof of Obama's failure to aid the consulate staff, and would be political suicide, and Ham, once out of uniform, would be highly vocal about it.

    Also, if something like this did happen, it would be very hard to keep it under wraps. The conflicting orders would have gone through the Joint OPS Center, so the entire staff would have had visibility of it. Every Soldier in the JOC would have had access to the orders, and there would have been massive e-mail traffic on the SIPR side. An order to detain the CG would have had to go to the DCG, and he'd have had to bring his Personal Security Detachment to enforce it. This isn't something that would have gone under the radar in the headquarters, it would have been extremely visible, as they would have also had to shut down all operations in order to ensure that nobody else went out to execute the rescue. It wouldn't have leaked, it would have hemorrhaged. That's why I'm skeptical.
    Except AFRICOM itself says his appointment requires senate approval.

    WASHINGTON, D.C., Oct 19, 2012 — President Obama has nominated Army General David M. Rodriguez to succeed Army General Carter F. Ham as the commander of U.S. Africa Command, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta said, October 18, 2012.

    U.S. Africa Command is the newest combatant command, and its headquarters is in Stuttgart, Germany. The command encompasses all of Africa and its adjacent waters except for Egypt.

    The Senate must confirm Rodriguez, who currently is commander of U.S. Army Forces Command at Fort Bragg, N.C.
    http://www.africom.mil/getArticle.asp?art=8383&lang=0

    Your dead on with the rest of your point though, this would have been to big to go without word getting out.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  8. #8  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Except AFRICOM itself says his appointment requires senate approval.



    http://www.africom.mil/getArticle.asp?art=8383&lang=0

    Your dead on with the rest of your point though, this would have been to big to go without word getting out.
    I stand corrected. Good catch.
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  9. #9  
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    According to the Stars and Stipes, Ham is being replaced by Gen Rodriguez. In the link posted there is no comment on Ham's next assignment.

    The fact that this has happened might be the world's biggest coincidence, but it could explain a lot---like who could have had a 4 star step down so quickly other than the president? I remember reading about the uproar when Truman forced McArthur out.

    Would Hillary Clinton or Panetta have the power to do this so quickly? Could the CIA have done it? I doubt it.
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  10. #10  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintLouieWoman View Post
    According to the Stars and Stipes, Ham is being replaced by Gen Rodriguez. In the link posted there is no comment on Ham's next assignment.

    The fact that this has happened might be the world's biggest coincidence, but it could explain a lot---like who could have had a 4 star step down so quickly other than the president? I remember reading about the uproar when Truman forced McArthur out.

    Would Hillary Clinton or Panetta have the power to do this so quickly? Could the CIA have done it? I doubt it.
    Panetta has a lot of power over 4 star assignments. I'm not sure of the full amount, but he does have the capability to extend appointments, etc... Clinton and the CIA would have nothing at all to do with it.

    It's not entirely out of the question that Ham just decided it's time to retire. He's been in for 46 years. He's maintained the rank of 4 Star General long enough to retire at it. This all could have been rolling long before Sept. 11th.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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