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  1. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    You can't go long when one half of society feeds, clothes, houses, pays for telephone and all utility bills, pays taxes and provides free entertainment for the other half.

    How long can that last Linda, even when you tell those people you like them and encourage them to continue what they are doing so they will vote for you, how long do you seriously think we can keep that up? You do know that as time goes by many more will decide they are tired of pulling the cart and want to ride in it don't you?
    I'll make an honest attempt at this. I don't think we're there yet but we're definitely growing into an entitlement society far worse than (where I've been) in Europe. Obamacare is far worse than state run health care anywhere I've lived (I've lived in 3 places with state health care).

    We probably could have nailed Obama on this.

    So bear with me on this, it's going to get a bit nuanced. Governments tax in order to provide a service. They do this all the time... we get taxed for the service of national security, and we get taxed for roads... and then we get taxed for medicare, social security, PBS, and so forth. Where liberals and conservatives argue is what services should the government provide, and what should be left to the private sector. In Europe (and Canada), it's accepted that state run health care is one of those things that's a service government should provide. And it's a functional system. I mean, people aren't dying in the streets here.

    Consider the following:

    We get taxed for Obamacare.
    It's not a service. It forces you to BUY a service from a private provider, or you get fined.
    It's not functional.

    There's no reason why liberals who want state healthcare should like Obamacare. Full, actual, state-run healthcare would cost a fraction of Obamacare. And while it would be too expensive, it might actually function.

    As I said, Republicans could have nailed Obama on this. It's not even about being an entitlement program, it's about being a bad program even to people who think the government should provide this service.
    Last edited by m00; 11-09-2012 at 12:40 PM.
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  2. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    But you had a rainbow sticker/emblem somewhere.
    I live in a largely blue collar neighborhood and have two stickers on my truck: NRA and Beach Parking Permit.

    Romney lost my precinct , which runs East to West from Fishing Shacks to McMansions, with only 30% of the votes. In the Yacht And Country Club gated community, he won by only a handful of votes. The precincts he won big were the McMansions of Tierra Verde and Clearwater. In the old money section of town, Obama won just as he did in 2008.

    Part of Levin's rant last night was about Mitch McConnell's speech in which he said that the Democratic Party was the party of the very rich and the very poor, and that the GOP was becoming a regional party, and a regional party is a minority party. Levin was screaming at that point. McConnell said that he didn't sign on to be part of a minority party and that the GOP needed to clean up its act.

    It's simple enough to do and I have said it before. Knock off the evangelical bullshit. Welcome the Log Cabin Republicans and other gay people. Gay people may be small in number, but are much larger in influence. Just about every gay person has the loyal support of his family. Blue collar voters were voting for same sex marriage in Maryland, because their kid, brother, sister, in laws, or whatever asked for their support. And the GOP can't see that? Stop threatening women with loss of abortion, contraception, and access to Planned Parenthood. Those two things could have tipped the scale this time.

    Increasingly, these elections are decided by a small margin. So it really doesn't make sense to say , "Well screw them, they are only 1% of the population. Obama won by 2% of the vote.

    There are a lot of would-be Republicans out there who simply cannot support the GOP as long as it's fondling the evangelical throwbacks.
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  3. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by m00 View Post
    As I said, Republicans could have nailed Obama on this. It's not about being an entitlement program, it's about being a bad program even to people who think the government should provide this service.
    What was the Republican response?

    "We'll overturn Obamacare.
    Except for the parts that are popular.
    Those are all the parts that have been enacted so far, so we'll keep those.
    But we'll get rid of the rest.
    We just won't tell you what we have in mind to replace it.
    We haven't figured that out yet."
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  4. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    What was the Republican response?

    "We'll overturn Obamacare.
    Except for the parts that are popular.
    Those are all the parts that have been enacted so far, so we'll keep those.
    But we'll get rid of the rest.
    We just won't tell you what we have in mind to replace it.
    We haven't figured that out yet."
    I have predicted for a long time that America will soon have Single Payer Healthcare, and it will be voted up by the Republicans. The GOP is many things, stupid it is not. They can tell which way the wind blows, and they will redesign Obamacare into a single payer system (because that is the only way to one up it, and also allows them to claim to have saved healthcare slackers money) and send it in for a signature. Sixty years from now they will claim it was their idea and that the Democrats fought them along the way.
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  5. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I live in a largely blue collar neighborhood and have two stickers on my truck: NRA and Beach Parking Permit.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  6. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I live in a largely blue collar neighborhood and have two stickers on my truck: NRA and Beach Parking Permit.

    Romney lost my precinct , which runs East to West from Fishing Shacks to McMansions, with only 30% of the votes. In the Yacht And Country Club gated community, he won by only a handful of votes. The precincts he won big were the McMansions of Tierra Verde and Clearwater. In the old money section of town, Obama won just as he did in 2008.

    Part of Levin's rant last night was about Mitch McConnell's speech in which he said that the Democratic Party was the party of the very rich and the very poor, and that the GOP was becoming a regional party, and a regional party is a minority party. Levin was screaming at that point. McConnell said that he didn't sign on to be part of a minority party and that the GOP needed to clean up its act.

    It's simple enough to do and I have said it before. Knock off the evangelical bullshit. Welcome the Log Cabin Republicans and other gay people. Gay people may be small in number, but are much larger in influence. Just about every gay person has the loyal support of his family. Blue collar voters were voting for same sex marriage in Maryland, because their kid, brother, sister, in laws, or whatever asked for their support. And the GOP can't see that? Stop threatening women with loss of abortion, contraception, and access to Planned Parenthood. Those two things could have tipped the scale this time.

    Increasingly, these elections are decided by a small margin. So it really doesn't make sense to say , "Well screw them, they are only 1% of the population. Obama won by 2% of the vote.

    There are a lot of would-be Republicans out there who simply cannot support the GOP as long as it's fondling the evangelical throwbacks.
    We need to reach out more to women and hispanics and asian americans. We have to choose our words wisely when we talk about Immigration reform. We don't need to surrender our beliefs and become more dem-like. That is just silly because the dems will always one up us. We won the majority in 2010 in Congress, Conservatives still want conservative ideals..we need to find a way to communicate our ideas in a way that doesn't alienate large voting groups. We need a charismatic conservative leader that is able to articulate conservative values without sounding dismissive and condescending. We need to get rid of the word "alien" and replace it with americans of hispanic descent. LEGAL immigrants from Latin america are resenting us because of our vernacular. HIspanics, in general, are conservative with good family values and Church going but referring to them as "aliens" eventhough we're not talking about the legal ones, is hurting us.

    Jeb Bush had the right idea and he overwhelmingly garnered the hispanic vote and support. Marco Rubio would be able to deliver the immigrant vote as well.
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  7. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    We need to get rid of the word "alien" and replace it with americans of hispanic descent. LEGAL immigrants from Latin america are resenting us because of our vernacular. HIspanics, in general, are conservative with good family values and Church going but referring to them as "aliens" eventhough we're not talking about the legal ones, is hurting us.

    Jeb Bush had the right idea and he overwhelmingly garnered the hispanic vote and support. Marco Rubio would be able to deliver the immigrant vote as well.
    Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush are both for amnesty, which means they are for an open border.

    The GOP will never win on the "hispanic vote" as long as the Democrats are willing to say things like "No one is illegal." and put "illegals" in quotes, as well as treating the words foreigners and immigrants as dirty words. The extreme Left is committed to open borders without regard for the consequences because they think it's "fair".

    The task of the GOP (and all real Americans) is to make the Latinos take a stand. Ask them point blank: Are you an American? Or are you a Mexican/etc...? Because if you are an American, then you don't support open borders with Mexico or any other country. If you are an American then you support selective and discriminatory immigration policy, which chooses the best candidates not simply the ones whose relatives snuck in 20 years ago.

    We need to be unabashedly anti-mass-immigration. There is nothing to be ashamed of. The people who should be ashamed are the ones like Marco Rubio and the mayor of Los ANgeles who keep telling us that WE "need to understand that immigration is not a numbers games to hispanics, it's about family." Bullshit. In California, illegal immigration is about a Green March into the US by a failed communist political group in Mexico who has rewritten history to convince themselves, other Latinos, and a whole bunch of stupid as shit Anglos that letting illegals being in the US is essential to the economy and "fair" if you don't want to be called a racist.

    Keep it simple. Court the Log Cabin and let them court the independents and Centrist Democrats. I think you would be surprised how many new Republicans could be signed up if the GOP would simply tell the evangelicals to sit down, shut up, and look at the calendar : it's 2012.
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  8. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Not even an honest attempt at the actual question, typical liberal.
    It's her kind of RINO thinking that lost is this election.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

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    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  9. #49  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    This happens after every election we lose, rather than think about how we can offer a clear conservative alternative to the Democrats we decide we need to try to out liberal the liberals. Does anyone think this might be the problem in the first place.
    Look at the numbers, half of America still voted conservative but hey let's split the liberal vote with the Dems and lose the conservatives.
    Fine, go for it, we'll find somewhere else, the people I have been fighting were right.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  10. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    It's her kind of RINO thinking that lost is (us?) this election.
    Well, you caught me. I'm the one who threw it to the Dems. Fine, don't change anything. Demographics don't matter. Bush won 44% of Hispanics in 2004. That was down to 37% for McCain in '08. That was down to 29% this year. Maybe they'll all just self-deport (citizens included!) by the next election.
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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