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  1. #21  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I thought you were better educated on the subject than to say this. Every year, some right wing publication trots out examples of Canadians coming to the US for treatment. In most of those cases, it's geographic. In most cases it's because East Icicle Saskatchewan is closer to some US border city's trauma center than it is to the provincial regional medical center. By the same token, when some millionaire in the US goes to Los Angeles to get an operation you would conclude that New York can't or won't provide the service. Medical care is an emotional thing for some people. How many times have you heard a relative say, "He's got one of the best cardiologists in the country." Now do you honestly think that one of the best cardiologists in the country just decided to go work for some obscure hospital in Podunk Texas? Of course not, but it makes Ma feel better to think so. Population density is not a measure of the quality of healthcare available.
    How many US citizens cross the border for the sole purpose of getting superior Canadian care? I'm not talking about people visiting or working there that fall ill.


    His failure to answer this indicates his irrelevance.
    Last edited by Rockntractor; 11-11-2012 at 12:53 PM.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    In my own words, we will go the way of Britain. There will be rationing, because you cannot restrict the price of something as long as demand is constant, without having some means of restricting consumption. That's rationing. There will be death panels, because when you ration healthcare, someone must decide who warrants the expenditure. There will be declines in quality and quantity of healthcare, and there will be a drain as doctors leave the system. The best will leave, the worst will remain, and the system will fail, slowly, but obviously. In an attempt to stem that failure, the government will raise taxes in order to spend more on it, but this will only make things more expensive, without solving the problems. In short, what you advocate will raise costs, reduce quality of care, increase waiting times for critical treatment and ultimately reduce medical decisions to cost/benefits calculations by third parties of bureaucrats. These are my own words, not Mark Levin's or Rush Limbaugh's, but you will dismiss them, as you do any other argument. It doesn't matter, since Obama's reelection guarantees that you will have your way, but at least allow me the right to point out when it is failing.
    I have to ask you: Do you abuse the Army medical system? Do you run over to a doctor's office every time you have a zit or a cold? Why not? According to you, that's what happens when people have "free health care".

    There is already rationing. It's called health insurance. I get preventative care, you get preventative care, and the people who use the ER just go along with no annual blood tests and physicals and don't get any care until something hurts too bad and they go to the ER. When I was in the hospital two summers ago (does time fly or what?) I got transferred down to what I call the prison ward, I shared a room with a man who had a catheter installed and was on dialysis because his kidneys stopped working three days earlier. He was also a diabetic. Had he been on regular medical care, his diabetes would be managed and his blood work would have let the doctors know he was headed for kidney failure in time to prepare him for dialysis. Instead, of being ready and suitable for outpatient care, he had to have a catheter surgically installed and spend weeks in the hospital to stabilize before being able to outpatient.

    That man wasn't abusing the healthcare system. He wasn't even using the healthcare system until it was almost too late.
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  3. #23  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Last edited by Rockntractor; 11-11-2012 at 02:11 PM.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I have to ask you: Do you abuse the Army medical system? Do you run over to a doctor's office every time you have a zit or a cold? Why not? According to you, that's what happens when people have "free health care".

    There is already rationing. It's called health insurance. I get preventative care, you get preventative care, and the people who use the ER just go along with no annual blood tests and physicals and don't get any care until something hurts too bad and they go to the ER. When I was in the hospital two summers ago (does time fly or what?) I got transferred down to what I call the prison ward, I shared a room with a man who had a catheter installed and was on dialysis because his kidneys stopped working three days earlier. He was also a diabetic. Had he been on regular medical care, his diabetes would be managed and his blood work would have let the doctors know he was headed for kidney failure in time to prepare him for dialysis. Instead, of being ready and suitable for outpatient care, he had to have a catheter surgically installed and spend weeks in the hospital to stabilize before being able to outpatient.

    That man wasn't abusing the healthcare system. He wasn't even using the healthcare system until it was almost too late.

    I rarely use the medical system because I don't want my insurance premiums to increase but after BroncoBamaCare drives the insurance companies out of business and I'm being heavily taxed to support socialized medicine I'll be heading for the doctor every time I get a runny nose or a paper cut.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Reb View Post
    I rarely use the medical system because I don't want my insurance premiums to increase but after BroncoBamaCare drives the insurance companies out of business and I'm being heavily taxed to support socialized medicine I'll be heading for the doctor every time I get a runny nose or a paper cut.
    It's reasonable to assume that you won't, both because you value your time and your reputation.

    We are already spending $7960/yr/person on healthcare in the US. You will be taxed, but you will be taxed for your healthcare just as you pay premiums now. For the record, we pay more than $2000 per year per person more than any other country.'

    DO you honestly think that you are getting better care than you would in Norway or Sweden?
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  6. #26  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's reasonable to assume that you won't, both because you value your time and your reputation.

    We are already spending $7960/yr/person on healthcare in the US. You will be taxed, but you will be taxed for your healthcare just as you pay premiums now. For the record, we pay more than $2000 per year per person more than any other country.'

    DO you honestly think that you are getting better care than you would in Norway or Sweden?
    I don't pay 7960 per year for my healthcare or my wife's and nobody is subsidizing me, I do pay monthly payments of 25 for an emergency room visit 4 years ago and I pay another 160 per year for physicals.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    I don't pay 7960 per year for my healthcare or my wife's and nobody is subsidizing me, I do pay monthly payments of 25 for an emergency room visit 4 years ago and I pay another 160 per year for physicals.
    It's an average. Are you counting what you pay into Medicare? You'll be getting some of that back in services unless you are killed instantly. Are you counting what you pay for a tractor? I ask because my cousins work for Caterpillar and seem to have nice benefit packages. Presumably the employees at John Deere and Kubota have health benefits as well.
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  8. #28  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's an average. Are you counting what you pay into Medicare? You'll be getting some of that back in services unless you are killed instantly. Are you counting what you pay for a tractor? I ask because my cousins work for Caterpillar and seem to have nice benefit packages. Presumably the employees at John Deere and Kubota have health benefits as well.
    That's right it is an average, I can no longer control the costs of my own medical care with my own decisions, I am thrown in a pot with everyone else and pay theirs too.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  9. #29  
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    Novaheart: what do you like about Obamacare, exactly?
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  10. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's reasonable to assume that you won't, both because you value your time and your reputation.
    I also value my hard earned money that will be taken from me at gunpoint to support a system that has no chance of being anywhere near as good as the free market system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    You will be taxed, but you will be taxed for your healthcare just as you pay premiums now.
    There's a big difference, genius. Right now I can choose the policy I want with the carrier that I want or I can choose to not have insurance at all. It's called freedom, a concept that you libtards are fuzzy on except for the freedom to kill babies with reckless abandon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    For the record, we pay more than $2000 per year per person more than any other country.'
    We pay more than any other country for many things. That's the price you pay for living in the formerly richest nation on earth, pun intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    DO you honestly think that you are getting better care than you would in Norway or Sweden?
    Yes, because, at present, I'm getting the health care I want, not what some .gov bureaucrat decides that I need.
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