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  1. #11  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Its not even a question of what sex can do things better, men do things differently then women. Men for example using logic for certain problem solving exercises, while women use their emotions.
    You mean like voting?
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  2. #12  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's an interesting manifestation of the invasion of Western civilization. Caucasians are the most dimorphic race. While it would take many generations to change that, assuming it could be changed depending upon how hard wired it is, the culture can be changed to emulate a less dimorphic ideal.

    It's interesting that Sweden would be where this is happening, since I perceive Swedes to be among the least dimorphic of the Western/Northern European peoples.

    It's interesting that in primates, the less dimorphic the population, the more monogamous they tend to be. Think about that when your 5 ft 1 in daughter brings home her 6 ft 2 in fiancé.
    While it is certainly possible to create and impose an androgynous ideal on a culture, the real questions that we have to ask are what the implications of such a choice are and whether such a culture can survive. Cultures compete. The confidence that the people of a culture have in their way of life is reflected in how they respond to challenges, both internal and external. Western Europe's response to challenges for that last few generations has been to avoid them. Contrast this with the culture of Britain under Victoria, which emphasized masculine and feminine virtues that were distinctly different from each other, but which were complementary. The traits that we think of as masculine, independence, courage, physical strength, etc., tend to disappear as cultures decline. The late Roman Empire was notoriously effeminate compared to the Roman Republic, for example. The courtiers of eighteenth century Europe were not particularly masculine (Dumas' descriptions of the decline of masculinity in the Musketeers books are particularly interesting in this regard), and most failing cultures become androgynous by undermining male attributes. Even the late imperial Romans didn't think to recruit women into the legions, nor did the court of Louis XVI seek to create female musketeers. Ours appears to be the first that has managed to feminize males while making women more masculine. The virtues that we think of as feminine, beauty, grace and nurturing, are also in decline. Our culture parodies femininity, to the point where drag queens compete in beauty contests and celebrities compete to shock us with sexual escapades that would have made Messalina blush.

    The Swedes have chosen to enforce androgyny, as they have chosen to decline in their capacity to act as a nation and a people. It's simply another aspect of their decline.
    --Odysseus
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    While it is certainly possible to create and impose an androgynous ideal on a culture, the real questions that we have to ask are what the implications of such a choice are and whether such a culture can survive. Cultures compete. The confidence that the people of a culture have in their way of life is reflected in how they respond to challenges, both internal and external. Western Europe's response to challenges for that last few generations has been to avoid them. Contrast this with the culture of Britain under Victoria, which emphasized masculine and feminine virtues that were distinctly different from each other, but which were complementary. The traits that we think of as masculine, independence, courage, physical strength, etc., tend to disappear as cultures decline. The late Roman Empire was notoriously effeminate compared to the Roman Republic, for example. The courtiers of eighteenth century Europe were not particularly masculine (Dumas' descriptions of the decline of masculinity in the Musketeers books are particularly interesting in this regard), and most failing cultures become androgynous by undermining male attributes. Even the late imperial Romans didn't think to recruit women into the legions, nor did the court of Louis XVI seek to create female musketeers. Ours appears to be the first that has managed to feminize males while making women more masculine. The virtues that we think of as feminine, beauty, grace and nurturing, are also in decline. Our culture parodies femininity, to the point where drag queens compete in beauty contests and celebrities compete to shock us with sexual escapades that would have made Messalina blush.

    The Swedes have chosen to enforce androgyny, as they have chosen to decline in their capacity to act as a nation and a people. It's simply another aspect of their decline.
    We tried to have swishy male leads in the US. I won't list the ones I consider swishy so as to not start a sideline battle here. But for as long as we have had chick flicks we have had male leads that women think are swell and men find uninspiring. The response was to glorify blue collar masculinity. Then came hippies and an openly androgynous effort in the middle and upper class, to which the lower classes pushed back. The feminization of male behavior gradually took hold in well behaved and academically inclined males who were taught by women. Meanwhile, the lower class starts emulating a street and prison standard of masculinity marked by tattoos, ghetto language, and prison clothing. Still, young females adore sexless and sexually nonthreatening males like Justin Bieber and harmonious boy bands. Young men respond to this by running in packs and declaring their lack of interest in respectable, clingy or demanding females.
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  4. #14  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Legos are made in Denmark, right? Not Sweden? I always thought that they were the best gender neutral toy, in a good way. Boys and girls both like them, they can play with them together at family gatherings and all.


    I was a girly-girl as a kid, and played with dolls-baby dolls, pretty dolls, Barbies, Dawn dolls. The only boy I knew then who played with dolls is gay, now. Just saying.

    Not counting GI Joe, which isn't really a doll. My uncle who is 7 years older than me had a collection of GI Joes (60s models) and all the assorted equipment-stuff that the Toy Hunter would love. His GI Joes would take my Barbies for rides in Joe's jeep, but that's mainly because he has always been a very good uncle.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Legos are made in Denmark, right? Not Sweden? I always thought that they were the best gender neutral toy, in a good way. Boys and girls both like them, they can play with them together at family gatherings and all.


    I was a girly-girl as a kid, and played with dolls-baby dolls, pretty dolls, Barbies, Dawn dolls. The only boy I knew then who played with dolls is gay, now. Just saying.

    Not counting GI Joe, which isn't really a doll. My uncle who is 7 years older than me had a collection of GI Joes (60s models) and all the assorted equipment-stuff that the Toy Hunter would love. His GI Joes would take my Barbies for rides in Joe's jeep, but that's mainly because he has always been a very good uncle.
    I have one of those brown baby doll thingies that would close its eyes when laid on its back, I'm straight as can be. I was very protective over the baby doll so I guess you could say it was very masculine to protect the innocent. Oh, and I also read The babysitter club, not sure why, I do know that I've always been a romantic kind of guy, it's why I was worried I'd never find a girl that believed in complementarianism. Hell, just last friday this song[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJiL6OerCI[/URL]
    played and I jumped up and pulled my fiancee off the computer from doing homework and danced in her room with her
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  6. #16  
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    I don't know if the US is in a position to criticize Sweden on the direction of their culture. Just sayin'
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  7. #17  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbins View Post
    I have one of those brown baby doll thingies that would close its eyes when laid on its back, I'm straight as can be. I was very protective over the baby doll so I guess you could say it was very masculine to protect the innocent. Oh, and I also read The babysitter club, not sure why, I do know that I've always been a romantic kind of guy, it's why I was worried I'd never find a girl that believed in complementarianism. Hell, just last friday this song[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HJiL6OerCI[/URL]
    played and I jumped up and pulled my fiancee off the computer from doing homework and danced in her room with her



    I was just commenting on the one guy I knew who played with dolls. Where I grew up, we had a pretty serious code about that kind of thing, at least as it applied to boys playing with girls' toys. It didn't necessarily apply to tomboys like my sister, who played sports, didn't like dolls and beat up boys who pissed her off. The boys she beat up were considered sissies for a while afterward. They usually had to regain their masculinity in Little League.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    beat up boys who pissed her off. The boys she beat up were considered sissies for a while afterward. They usually had to regain their masculinity in Little League.
    I was a bit tomboyish growing up, but I did have my barbies as well. I just enjoyed boys company more because I liked to do what they did, with games like wiffleball and manhunt. My father made sure I grew out of that stage after puberty as he didn't want me around any boys after that. I was also a bit bossy and the boys kept me in my place and I liked that.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    You mean like voting?
    Isn't a proven fact that ever since women got the right to vote the debt in this country has risen?
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Isn't a proven fact that ever since women got the right to vote the debt in this country has risen?
    Women are very underrepresented in Congress and the Senate, so it's all on you guys.
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